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21-04-2019, 18:52
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,168
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Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
A little past 7:00 this evening a 49 ft French Catamaran called Mayday, which I responded to in Georgetown Exuma. The captain claimed he didn't understand why he hit the reef because he was following the recommended route. I asked him if he was using Navionics charts and he said yes. This is the same recommended route that lead a lagoon onto the reef between Guana cay and Fowl cay about three or four years ago. I don't know if the Captain never updated his charts or if the erroneous route has reappeared on Navionics charts as I'm not a user of the product. I will contact some fellow cruisers that do use them in the morning and see if the route has reappeared.
Fortunately the boat hit the reef near high tide and was not a fixed keel cat and made it across the reef instead of being stranded on it and destroying the restoration efforts from the last grounding. The boat was taking on water in its starboard hull through the engine room (reportedly around the shaft)and had lost lost steering. They managed to get the flooding under control and a local salvage vessel responded with gasoline powered pumps so the vessel is no longer in immediate danger. It was well after dark before they got a couple of tow vessels on it and got it to a safe anchorage.
So Bottom line if any of you out there have Navionics charts that show a recommended route to enter Elizabeth Harbor in Georgetown Exuma that goes between Guana and Fowl Cays DON'T USE IT, it will put you on a reef.
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21-04-2019, 19:35
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg, Qld.
Posts: 2,192
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
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21-04-2019, 19:42
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore"
Posts: 7,557
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Anyone who relied on Navionics in the Bahamas
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper
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Anyone who relies on Navionics in the Bahamas should take care. Do a search I have been warning folks for over ten years on this forum.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
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21-04-2019, 23:14
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg, Qld.
Posts: 2,192
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Even though there is a warning stating "Do Not Follow Suggested Route" It appears that the route has been removed from the app, interesting that the warning was put up 2 days after the first incident was posted here on the 13 Feb 2013......
If the below chart was presented to me there is no way I would have even considered going through there, I would be interested in what version they were using…….
https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@13&key=qllnCfgamM
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22-04-2019, 01:19
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
How is it that they are so wrong in a popular area? After-all it's not the South Pacific where the paper charts from the 1800s. Surely they take a look at whatever official paper charts are put out by the country and question and double check to make sure they aren't way off? (applies to both Navionics/Garmin, and the boat owner)
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22-04-2019, 01:56
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife
How is it that they are so wrong in a popular area? After-all it's not the South Pacific where the paper charts from the 1800s. Surely they take a look at whatever official paper charts are put out by the country and question and double check to make sure they aren't way off? (applies to both Navionics/Garmin, and the boat owner)
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It is a matter of surveys. The charts themselves are based on surveys and don't get updated much on an ad hoc basis, especially if the issue is something in shallow water which doesn't affect ships. So even errors in charts decades old often persist.
Very new crowd-sourcing systems like "Community Edits" and "Sonar Charts" are designed to overcome this problem and propagate local knowledge more efficiently.
But in general, it is not proper navigation or seamanship just to follow a chart mindlessly. Charts are not infallible, not by a long shot, and they are especially fallible in (a) poor countries where surveys are rarely done (some charts are based on surveys centuries old!); and (b) in areas where the bottom changes a lot (like places in hurricane zones -- duh).
Dollars to doughnuts the guy in the OP did not even have up to date charts on board. Did he study pilot books, refer to other cartography sources? Keep someone on watch on the bows when passing through the coral reef?
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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22-04-2019, 01:58
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 4,683
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
The Explorer Charts for comparison ....
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22-04-2019, 02:46
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Not familiar with the area, but NONE of those charts would encourage me to attempt to pass between those cays. Only an observer in the rigging and good lighting would suffice.
There may well be a good passage there, but none of those charts show such.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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22-04-2019, 03:00
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg, Qld.
Posts: 2,192
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Not familiar with the area, but NONE of those charts would encourage me to attempt to pass between those cays. Only an observer in the rigging and good lighting would suffice.
There may well be a good passage there, but none of those charts show such.
Jim
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The Navionics chart certainly looks a lot different to when the Feb 2013 incident occurred...
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22-04-2019, 03:22
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cruising
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,723
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Wow. I started using Navionics on my phone last week. It is great when it works, but nothing works as well as someone up in the first set of spreaders.
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22-04-2019, 03:58
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#11
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Not familiar with the area, but NONE of those charts would encourage me to attempt to pass between those cays. Only an observer in the rigging and good lighting would suffice.
There may well be a good passage there, but none of those charts show such.
Jim
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Once again, this demonstrates that one needs and eyeball on the course in these waters.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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22-04-2019, 04:54
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper
The Navionics chart certainly looks a lot different to when the Feb 2013 incident occurred...
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This is zoomed out though. The ones further up in the post seem to have depths matching the Explorer chart. Seems there's a few 0.5m soundings, but most above 1m and bearing in mind the chart datum is usually from the lowest tide levels, it shouldn't be too bad for a shallow draft multihull. Saying that, I wouldn't fancy it without someone up at the bow or higher.
Interestingly people have been mentioning the 'Navionics route' surely no-one was relying on auto routing through what looks to be a tricky area?
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22-04-2019, 04:56
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
I have to say that I would not call this a case of being a "victim" of Navionics. Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their electronic charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough. Though, of course, Navionics needs to correct errors when they are made aware of them.
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22-04-2019, 05:45
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n
I have to say that I would not call this a case of being a "victim" of Navionics. Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their electronic charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough. Though, of course, Navionics needs to correct errors when they are made aware of them.
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Shouldn't it read ..Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough.
I don't think it matters much if they are electronic or not.
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22-04-2019, 06:16
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#15
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n
I have to say that I would not call this a case of being a "victim" of Navionics. Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their outdated electronic charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough. Though, of course, Navionics needs to correct errors when they are made aware of them.
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FIFY
It would appear that Navionics removed the "suggested route", added numerous obstruction symbols and a warning note more than six years ago.
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