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View Poll Results: I've used my Secondary Anchor System in vengance
Can't remember the last time I did 17 29.31%
Less than 1 time per 100 anchorings 14 24.14%
1 time per 100 anchorings 2 3.45%
2 times per 100 anchorings 5 8.62%
3 to 5 times per 100 anchorings 4 6.90%
5 to 10 times per 100 anchorings 5 8.62%
10 to 20 times per 100 anchorings 2 3.45%
More than 20 times per 100 anchorings 9 15.52%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2008, 05:33   #16
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I've never had to use my secondary in combination with the primary under high wind conditions. The primary (a 44 lb Delta) has held, no problems, in all conditions up to 40-45 kts.

In tight anchorages, I've dropped the secondary straight down off the bow, after properly anchoring with the primary, to limit swing or to avoid getting backwinded onto the beach in light conditions.
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Old 26-04-2008, 19:45   #17
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Interesting. Seems that most don't or very rarely use a 2nd.
Bit surprised that a few do it more than 20% of the time.
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Old 26-04-2008, 20:45   #18
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Other than Med style docking where I have to control the swing of the bow, the only time I use a second bow anchor is if I am anchored in a soft slurry bottom with strong bullets of wind coming off the hills.

If these conditions cause the boat to dance around and I am getting big shears with the anchor breaking away in this slime, I put out the second anchor and only about 10 feet of chain on the bottom.

The drag of this 2nd anchor settles the bow right down and allows the primary anchor a better chance to catch in this kind of poor holding ground.

Works in places like Repulse Bay, Hong Kong.
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Old 27-04-2008, 03:53   #19
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Interesting. Seems that most don't or very rarely use a 2nd.
Bit surprised that a few do it more than 20% of the time.
I'd expect that most of us who habitually use 2 anchors, are anchoring in reversing tidal races, or "tight" anchorages with constrained swinging radii, and use (some form of) Bahamian mooring technique.
On Lake Superior, we often used a fore & aft (bow/stern) anchor, in “tight” river mouths.
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Old 27-04-2008, 11:41   #20
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In Belize, if there were even a hint of a blow. 2 anchors. 40% ave.
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:36   #21
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Just wanted to add one more thought concerning those that NEVER use two anchors. Often we have been in anchorages with some of these folks and everyone but them are on two anchors for whatever reasons. They have made the entire anchorage uncomfortable and unsafe at times. So common sense and courtesy dictates that you may need to use a second anchor at times even if you really don't want to.
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Old 03-05-2008, 16:26   #22
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We are set up to deploy our second anchor ahead of our primary on the same rode, it sits there on the bow with its chain and shackle already to go, but we've never had to use it in three years or cruising Tasmania South Island NZ, if you set two anchors on two rodes you are usually still only sitting to one anchor and if that anchor is small or poorly set wheres the security in that and if they both start too drag what a mess with no chance of resetting, Id rather have one large properly set anchor and if absolutely necessary two anchors on the one rode
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Old 03-05-2008, 16:31   #23
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Just wanted to add one more thought concerning those that NEVER use two anchors. Often we have been in anchorages with some of these folks and everyone but them are on two anchors for whatever reasons. They have made the entire anchorage uncomfortable and unsafe at times. So common sense and courtesy dictates that you may need to use a second anchor at times even if you really don't want to.
Interestingly, I was talking two days ago with a very experienced yachtsman (both cruising and solo racing with custom built boats of his own design, and also preparation of boats that have cruised the southern regions of South America, for example) about this.

I think you will find that the general view is that a boat built for independant cruising should be able to rely on one anchor. With modern anchors, and going oversized, it is easy to achieve this objective and even with older designs the same is possible but with a bigger weight penalty.

I am not trying to take anything away from what you say but perhaps just point out that the boats relying on single anchors and causing problems in an anchorage are most likely suffering from inadequate anchoring systems for the cruising they do (or knowledge, but that probably goes and in hand with system inadequacy). They do not indicate that single anchors are inadequate.

Of course, a boat that can rely on a single anchor and so swings about its scope may pose a problem to others in the anchorage that have to (or feel they have to) rely on two anchors and those set in a way that limits swinging. But that, in my view, is hardly the problem of the boat with an adequate anchor system.

John
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Old 03-05-2008, 17:37   #24
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Originally Posted by Chuck Baier View Post
Just wanted to add one more thought concerning those that NEVER use two anchors. Often we have been in anchorages with some of these folks and everyone but them are on two anchors for whatever reasons. They have made the entire anchorage uncomfortable and unsafe at times. So common sense and courtesy dictates that you may need to use a second anchor at times even if you really don't want to.
That is more a courtesy issue rather than a boat safety issue as I think ML1 is saying as well. I'm not to sure by what you mean a single anchored boat makes the anchorage unsafe but do understand and agree with the rest though. Yes I do realise in some situations you just do need to limit swinging and deploying a 2nd is one way of doing so.

I don't think most people intentionally NEVER use a 2nd, more they just haven't had the need to use a second in vengeance. I always carry at least 2 and occasionally have put the 2nd out just to orientate the boat one way of the other. The last time I felt I HAD TOO use a second was quite a while back so fit more into the 'Can't remember' category. That in no way means I have no intention of every using it, I may have to tomorrow. I'd doubt anyone (with any grey matter) would intentionally not use a 2nd if the need arises.

Saying that there are a lot of boats, inc the odd offshore cruiser, who just one system aboard. Personally I think that's Grade A crazy but I suppose if they have never needed a 2nd before I can understand, to a small degree, why they don't carry one.

Of course all of this doesn't touch on the 'Monkey see, Monkey do' factor which is noticeably growing out there. This if rife everywhere and not just including things boat related. By that I mean we see many who 'do what they see', they see XX doing YY and getting away with it so they blindly follow without thinking or realising, probably even knowing, the possible downsides. This is just as common in the Cruising fleet as it is in to off the beach dingy fleet. While most cruisers I've meet are knowledgeable people there are some very spooky loonies out there as well.

As much as I'm loathed to do it, in no way do I mean to swing this thread and in my position of being able to I will stop if it does - mention anchors. A classic example of my Monkey see, Monkey do statement. How many times have you heard "When I look around all I see is lots of XXX anchor so I had better have one". They don't know why they have them or even if they are actually any good for their situation but blindly copy the heard. I'd suggest many also do the same when actually using an anchoring system i.e they see everyone using 2 so they do, equally see only one deployed so again just do that.
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Old 03-05-2008, 18:23   #25
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Saying that there are a lot of boats, inc the odd offshore cruiser, who just one system aboard. Personally I think that's Grade A crazy but I suppose if they have never needed a 2nd before I can understand, to a small degree, why they don't carry one.
Yes, and while I am sure GMac did not read my post like this, others might as I may not have made it entirely clear . When I say rely on one anchor I certainly do not mean to carry only one anchoring system, but that the boat should be cabable of lying to its main anchor over a wide range of conditions.

We carry three anchors (2 oversized and one recommended size for boat) and 2 cables, one all chain and the other (for deep anchoring mainly) rope and chain. But in our case the main anchoring system is the only one used - it has served over a wide range of bottoms, zero to hurricane force winds, sea conditions, etc. We don't anchor in crowds (we are blessed) - and if someone comes and anchors on top of us where there is plenty of room to be elsewhere, we either up anchor qand move a hundred meters or so or ask the culprit to move (tis funny how in a big anchorage, if one is the only boat there, another will come along and anchor on top of you ).
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Old 03-05-2008, 18:37   #26
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I suppose I cruise in different areas than everyone else. Try anchoring in Boot Key Harbor in Marathon with one anchor in high season, or most anchorages in the Bahamas on only one anchor and you will have issues. It does not really matter whether it is the right anchoring practice or not. Every boat in the anchorage is on two anchors so when you come in you will have to set two anchors whether you want to, like to, or usually don't but let me tell you there are indeed a lot of folks out there with a deficit of gray matter on the water. We see it every day, day after day. The fact that you carry the proper anchors, correct size chain or rode or ANY other factor is not going to change things when you arrive at an anchorage and everyone is on two anchors. Drop the hook at almost any anchorage along the ICW on the east coast of the US when they are crowded, especially if everyone is waiting for a weather front to pass through and you had better plan on two hooks.
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Old 03-05-2008, 19:10   #27
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Many times I have had to bahama style anchor. I guess it really depends on where you sail or if you are hit with heavy weather. I sail around fl. and bahamas and there are a lot of strong current in some of the areas.
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Old 03-05-2008, 19:26   #28
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Many times I have had to bahama style anchor. I guess it really depends on where you sail or if you are hit with heavy weather. I sail around fl. and bahamas and there are a lot of strong current in some of the areas.
That is a very good point. I think where you cruise will have a big influence on whether you use two anchors more often or less often.
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Old 03-05-2008, 20:41   #29
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It definitely sounds as if you guys, Chuck and Drifter, aren't blessed with the space I or ML1 usually are. While we have masses of boats we also has masses of anchorages. Some do get real crowded in certain wind directions at times of the year but it's exceptionally unusual to have to set a 2nd to hold position. We often anchor real close but all swing pretty much the same way on wind or tide changes so it's 99% of the time fine.

In real nasty stuff it's not that uncommon to see bunches of very similar boats anchored together, almost as if the bay had been sectioned into, here for 30-36fter, over there for 36-42 and so on. Why this happens I don't know, just a strange coincidence I suppose. Then again I always consider how my potential floating neighbours will behave on tide or wind changes so maybe a huge pile more than I would expect do as well.

Don't get us wrong, speaking on behalf of my fellow countryman ML1, hopefully correctly, we don't have an issue with using 2 and can't see any reason to not think if we came into Boot Key (great name) we wouldn't deploy 2 as well. It's just we don't have too here or the places we end up so don't.

The original question was just to see how many do use their 2nd and roughly how often. There was no saying 2nds weren't good when required intention at all.

Yes ML1, I never read you as having only one anchor. I know where you boat and doing that would be bloody crazy.
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Old 23-05-2008, 19:11   #30
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So, 2nd anchor means.....? Stern anchor? Two bow anchors??? Back-up anchor/replacement anchor????

I've yet to use my 2nd anchor (bulwagga) 45# but have used my stern anchor (FX_37) in conjunction with my primary (Rocna 55#). As for etiquette, yes, if everyone uses a stern anchor, I use one, if everyone is on 2 bow anchors... then ditto. Just hasn't happened for me.

Of course, here in the PNW, stern ties ashore are often 'de rigueur' and the only way to go. Yet another option but one that also relies on everyone courteously following the example set by the other previous occupants of the anchorage.
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