Starboard for windlass base?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe

Did some of my winches from starboard and they're fine, but they're only about a year old now. I have heard that some sealants have trouble sticking to the starboard so they can start to leak over time. Mine haven't yet, but i sealed the bolts where they go through the deck rather than trying to seal the starboard. I used 3M UV4000.

Yeah, Starboard is pretty slippery stuff. I'd rely on the sealant not the adhesion. I wonder if G10 is less slippery in some way?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

Yes the G10 would work I guess but $210 usd for a 2x3x1/2 is a bit rich for my blood.



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No doubt! The pressure on the spacer is minimal compared with hitting it with a hammer or something like that.... if your windlass is holding that pressure rather than a snubber etc, you are going to bend a shaft.

[Frankly]

Using a piece of 1/2" Starboard under my vertical windlass for 10 years. Still just fine. Yes it does flex a bit when the chain jams in the pipe but maybe that provides a little peak stress reduction.

That Ipey should also provide a good base. One tough species of wood.

Used a lot of G10 and polyester board for reinforcing over the years. They all work well.

Pick your poison.

[jcapo]

GPO-3 is an alternative to G10. Its less expensive and very dense. And its Red!

Order Plastic GPO-3 Plate in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com

[The Way]

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

I'm installing a new Maxwell electric windlass. In order to get a fair lead for the chain I need to raise the windlass about 1/2 in. The old windlass used a wooden base. Over time it was looking rather decrepit.

I'm wanting to install a new base that looks good, has as close to zero maintenance as possible and most importantly has the strength for the job.

I was looking at starboard but some one told me it would crush like styrofoam when the windlass was under strain.

Any thoughts ?

Rich

Rich,

I too tried plywood, sealed with epoxy. Lasted 1 year. Replaced with 1/2" Starboard 3 years ago and it's been perfect. The only trouble with Starboard is that it gouges easily and I don't know how to beautify it. But that's a small matter.

Be sure to drill the bolt-holes in the Starboard oversize by 1/32" because the Starboard expands/contracts at a different rate from the deck and windlass. Also you can't use Life-Calk on Starboard. I use butyl for everything on deck, including under the Starboard and under the windlass, and have no leaks at all.

With regard to warping, my Starboard (about 18" square) is bolted to the deck with 8 bolts (either 1/4" or 5/16") and it never moves. FYI, it's a manual windlass, 60-pound anchor with all-chain rode (5/16").

Fair winds,
Jack

[cabo_sailor]

Thank you Jack,

I briefly considered a hardwood with epoxy but discarded the idea. Plain epoxy has no UV protection so I'd be back to varnishing. No thanks, I've enough to varnish as it is.


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[Stumble]

The real problem with Starboard is that it cold flows when pressure is applied. Just the compression from the bolts will cause it to slowly deform away from the pressure of the bolts. This means that you actually can't torque the bolts properly.

As mentioned G10/FR4 is the right material for this application.

[SailRedemption]

Why not use a piece of aluminum or stainless steel plate? Some metal sellers have a scrap or scratched/bent bin that are discounted.

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[colemj]

Even with all the theoretical reasons not to use Starboard as a windlass base, I installed our windlass on top of a 1" thick piece of Starboard because I also needed the height to make things work.

There has been no cold flowing, no compression, no need to re-torque bolts, or any other problem with it - except that I got a small rust stain on it that doesn't seem to want to come out.

I don't see why it would do any of the above in this application. There is almost no compressive force - all the force is mostly in shear and tension, which make the deck area and backing plates the most critical components. People have been using wood for years without any problems, and some of that is softer than Starboard.

Besides, it only sees any forces at all for a couple of minutes a few times a month. The rest of the time it is just sitting there unperturbed. Even when it does see "action", that should really be a non-event because who uses their windlass to yank their boat into 40kt winds and 6' seas? Does anyone use the windlass as the fixed chain point when anchored? Our normal retrieval procedure barely presents any higher load than when the windlass is not in use, and we use a bridle to take the chain load when anchored.

So chalk me up as another with real practical experience with Starboard in this application who has not had any of the theoretical problems with it.

Mark

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

I'm installing a new Maxwell electric windlass. In order to get a fair lead for the chain I need to raise the windlass about 1/2 in. The old windlass used a wooden base. Over time it was looking rather decrepit.

I'm wanting to install a new base that looks good, has as close to zero maintenance as possible and most importantly has the strength for the job.

I was looking at starboard but some one told me it would crush like styrofoam when the windlass was under strain.

Any thoughts ?

Rich


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Starboard would probably work when only loaded in compression. I'd avoid low molecular weight or plain old high density poly ethylene. They will not hold bolt clamp tension in this application.

Ideally I'd use a hybrid plastic, like one of the glass filled ABS, if you don't want to use teak. These hybrids (often thermosets) have much better stability under load than some of the more common thermoplastics.

I haven't checked the compression strength, fracture toughness or UV resistance when heavily loaded for any of the plastic suggestions above.

Some of the good engineering plastics (thermoplastics) can fail prematurely when subject to multiple load types.

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[laika]

You could use the hardwood without varnish..apply a few coats of epoxy, scuff it up, acetone wipe, and paint over.

Just another idea

[Ryan H]

Just a thought... Why not just pick up a board of composite decking in whatever color you want, take what you need to shim up your windlass, then use the remainder as a fender board? I don't think it would cost you much more than 15$

[The Way]

Originally Posted by Stumble

The real problem with Starboard is that it cold flows when pressure is applied. Just the compression from the bolts will cause it to slowly deform away from the pressure of the bolts. This means that you actually can't torque the bolts properly.

As mentioned G10/FR4 is the right material for this application.

I have to say I haven't noticed this at all after 3 years of Starboard under my windlass. And I had it all apart recently to fix an unrelated problem. I bolted the Starboard around the edges with 8 bolts with large washers. Plus four more bolts for the windlass. Both Starboard and windlass installed over butyl. All bolts torqued down fairly hard, but a little at a time (per Maine Sail's instructions). No leaks at all, period.

Fair winds,
Jack

[hodgmo]

About 15 yrs ago my ancient Niilson vertical windlass (similar to Maxwell’s) collapsed as I applied the clutch. The problem was that the ~1” thick teak base had cracked and allowed water to get into the windlass gear box below deck. The gear box was Al with weep holes; the weep holes clogged with corrosion and gunk finally the housing disintegrated. I was able to have a new gear box fabricated and thus salvage the otherwise fine windlass. I re-installed the rebuilt windlass on a 1” thick piece of delrin cut to match and glued to deck with 5200 and to the windlass with UV4000, and it has never leaked despite extensive use. FWIW I’m careful to never let the windlass experience rode shock –a heavily backed chain stopper takes the load when I pull the hook, and a cleated snubber takes the loads while anchored.

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

I'm installing a new Maxwell electric windlass. In order to get a fair lead for the chain I need to raise the windlass about 1/2 in. The old windlass used a wooden base. Over time it was looking rather decrepit.

I'm wanting to install a new base that looks good, has as close to zero maintenance as possible and most importantly has the strength for the job.

I was looking at starboard but some one told me it would crush like styrofoam when the windlass was under strain.

Any thoughts ?

Rich


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I guess you are talking about foam sandwich decks as in my own boat. Yes the load on the winch can crush the foam. The winch retaining bolts will possibly need to be continually re tightened as the load on the winch keeps doing its thing. But there is an simple fix.

It's easy to drill out each bolt hole with a hole saw from underneath leaving the upper glass skin intact. If the holes overlap so much the better. Pop out the plugs of foam and scrape the underside of the upper glass skin clean with a screwdriver or chisel. Then fill those holes with a high density epoxy mix until it comes out the pilot holes on top. I use strips of gaffer tape to hold the mix in place while it sets. Best not to do that on a hot day but rather in the morning or evening as the epoxy can generate more heat as it reacts.

You also need to clean the foam out of the edge of the big deck hole the winch fits into and fill with epoxy if like mine the motor is underneath. Use masking tape to hold a thick mix in place while it sets. Then water cannot permeate the foam. Make your top wooden spacer with a good bit of tapered overlap to spread the load.

Because your deck likely has a curve in it you will probably need to bed the spacer on a thickish layer of heavy duty Sikaflex 291. Mask off the area and cut out the tape with a Stanley knife using the spacer as a guide.

If you can get the spacer turned up on a wood lath it will make it easier. Or you could jigsaw some laminations of timber and spin that in a drill or lathe to rasp it smooth.


Laminated is likely best as solid wood can eventually crack along the grain.

Put heavy duty penny washers under all the winch retaining nuts. You might need to grind flats on the washers to clear the "winch hole". Hold them with vice grips and use a bench grinder at a friendly workshop if you don't have a grinder. Dip them in a pot of water as you go to cool them off.

It may sound a lot of work but it's quite easy. You will need to do it over a couple of days as the epoxy sets. You can put a cooking pot over the hole to waterproof it overnight if you need to.

Then you will be able to tighten the winch retaining bolts without crushing the foam. And the winching load will be spread out sufficiently.