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Old 03-09-2017, 11:05   #2791
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

There are some who say to let the anchor settle in on its own, no need to do any reversing or setting. I never understood that logic and I am pretty certain I never will. When I sailed bigger boats and was setting only a single bow anchor I liked to rev it up (slowly, or you may just get the anchor to skip on the bottom) to whatever was safe for the engine, hold it there for up to a minute or less and check fixed markers if possible for movement of the boat. If it isn't setting, you'll likely see it in less than a minute.
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:00   #2792
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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There are some who say to let the anchor settle in on its own, no need to do any reversing or setting. I never understood that logic and I am pretty certain I never will. When I sailed bigger boats and was setting only a single bow anchor I liked to rev it up (slowly, or you may just get the anchor to skip on the bottom) to whatever was safe for the engine, hold it there for up to a minute or less and check fixed markers if possible for movement of the boat. If it isn't setting, you'll likely see it in less than a minute.
Until this year I always reversed down to set, however there is one spot that I anchor that has heavy mud and when I reverse the thing....that anchor is difficult to break free. I know I could put a trip line on it, but even with that it might be hard. So for the past few times at that anchorage, I just let the anchor settle on it's own without any reverse. And in the morning there is still difficulty in bringing it out but not like before. 45 lb mason supreme
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Old 06-09-2017, 23:15   #2793
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

I know an anchor buried in mud takes a lot of (somewhat) gentle tugging straight up to coax it out. (Try a Danforth in mud!) That is mud for ya, it's almost like concrete. And many anchors that are just dropped on the bottom will PROBABLY set once they start to drag, given good scope, as long as the chain is not wrapped around the anchor. But, I still would argue that the anchor that was properly set in mud is the one that is more dependable when it is really called on. For me it is sleep insurance; I just cannot sleep really well till I know the anchor(s) is(are) set.
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Old 26-01-2018, 04:55   #2794
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

This has all been excellent material to read, learning a lot. I had just purchased a Delta 22# and think I will be using the free return policy. Not that it is an awful anchor according to my research but it doesn't seem to be one of the best.

SO why not just simply buy the best anchor I can afford as a very small investment for a boat my wife and I (plus kids) will be spending much time and money fixing and enjoying plus the safety factor.

Thanks for everyone who has contributed to this thread, very useful.

Daniel
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Old 26-01-2018, 07:05   #2795
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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This has all been excellent material to read, learning a lot. I had just purchased a Delta 22# and think I will be using the free return policy. Not that it is an awful anchor according to my research but it doesn't seem to be one of the best.



SO why not just simply buy the best anchor I can afford as a very small investment for a boat my wife and I (plus kids) will be spending much time and money fixing and enjoying plus the safety factor.



Thanks for everyone who has contributed to this thread, very useful.



Daniel


Bingo! Compared to total cost of most boats.... and try dragging in a blow some day and see if you’d gladly throw
a hundred dollar bill in the air to stop safely...
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Old 26-01-2018, 08:52   #2796
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

Now on to the task of finding out if I should buy the stainless or the galvanized lol.
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Old 26-01-2018, 10:04   #2797
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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I know an anchor buried in mud takes a lot of (somewhat) gentle tugging straight up to coax it out. (Try a Danforth in mud!) That is mud for ya, it's almost like concrete. And many anchors that are just dropped on the bottom will PROBABLY set once they start to drag, given good scope, as long as the chain is not wrapped around the anchor. But, I still would argue that the anchor that was properly set in mud is the one that is more dependable when it is really called on. For me it is sleep insurance; I just cannot sleep really well till I know the anchor(s) is(are) set.
Don't dismiss it too quickly, with qualifications.

Some of them are just wrong.

You should do a little power test or something before settling in.

But there is some truth. In very, very soft much, any attempt to set immediately (other than Fortress--different rules apply) will lead to plowing furoughs, no matter what the new-age hook. If you wait, gravity will settle it though the top ooze. Then you set it just a little (the wind will often do this), and then you wait, and them you repeat. Because the mud is weak but viscous,it will slowly consolidate around the anchor, and each time you can pull a little harder. In fact, I've tested this in soft mud using load cells, and this sort of progressive setting can be several times stronger than just hitting it. It takes hours.

The other line of logic is that the anchor will reset with the wind anyway. Maybe.

But yes, I nearly always give it some power when finished, because otherwise you may just have fouled the anchor on the chain or be anchored over something impenetrable. You don't know until you pull.
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Old 26-01-2018, 13:49   #2798
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

The 20# Danforth we used in California sand worked well on Jim's 30 footer. However, we never went through many tide cycles in the same place with it, and the anchorages were mostly sand with hard mud.

I think those European beaches with thin sand over rock can be really difficult, but it is only from looking at noelex's pictures--no personal experience with them.

Soft mud is a pita. We have resorted to using the Danforth (still have it) in a V with the Manson Supreme to keep from dragging again during a frontal passage. The additional fluke area was probably the deciding factor, imo.

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Old 26-01-2018, 14:14   #2799
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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The 20# Danforth we used in California sand worked well on Jim's 30 footer. However, we never went through many tide cycles in the same place with it, and the anchorages were mostly sand with hard mud.

I think those European beaches with thin sand over rock can be really difficult, but it is only from looking at noelex's pictures--no personal experience with them.

Soft mud is a pita. We have resorted to using the Danforth (still have it) in a V with the Manson Supreme to keep from dragging again during a frontal passage. The additional fluke area was probably the deciding factor, imo.

Ann
What works really well in soft mud with a Manson and Fortress is a V from the rode with he Manson closer. In this way, the Manson buffers the direction changes and the Fortress does the high power holding. Better than the sum of the parts in soft mud--they are synergistic. See image 2.

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Old 26-01-2018, 18:38   #2800
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

We'll bear that in mind, thinwater. In fact, it worked well enough through sustained 55's and puffs in the high 60's, with more or less equal legs, but it's nice to know, anyway. In the particular bay we were in at the time, there were a number of boats already, and where we were, you could tell from the deposits on the anchors when we got them up, that the mud just between the two anchors was different, it was softer where the Manson was.

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Old 26-01-2018, 19:28   #2801
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Don't dismiss it too quickly, with qualifications.

Some of them are just wrong.

You should do a little power test or something before settling in.

But there is some truth. In very, very soft much, any attempt to set immediately (other than Fortress--different rules apply) will lead to plowing furoughs, no matter what the new-age hook. If you wait, gravity will settle it though the top ooze. Then you set it just a little (the wind will often do this), and then you wait, and them you repeat. Because the mud is weak but viscous,it will slowly consolidate around the anchor, and each time you can pull a little harder. In fact, I've tested this in soft mud using load cells, and this sort of progressive setting can be several times stronger than just hitting it. It takes hours.

The other line of logic is that the anchor will reset with the wind anyway. Maybe.

But yes, I nearly always give it some power when finished, because otherwise you may just have fouled the anchor on the chain or be anchored over something impenetrable. You don't know until you pull.
Yes. I realized, re-reading this, that I have to amend what I wrote. I believe I know that ooze you speak of BUT I don't have that kind of stuff in my area. I went scuba diving in a lake once that had a layer of a kind of mucousoid gloop and though I was not anchoring there, I am sure that it would have taken a lot of gentle coaxing to get the anchor to settle down to something it could start to get a reliable bite on. In fact the anchor may actually be buoyed a bit in that goo.
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Old 26-01-2018, 22:51   #2802
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

Where are the photos of those M or dickie bow style anchors ships and trawlers have? They obviously work well enough, but I've never seen one on a sailing vessel.
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Old 27-01-2018, 01:18   #2803
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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Where are the photos of those M or dickie bow style anchors ships and trawlers have? They obviously work well enough, but I've never seen one on a sailing vessel.
Mike, I don't think they do work well. I have been in a few anchorages with larger ships and they have dragged in only moderate conditions. Of course they have plenty of crew to constantly monitor the position and they seem to accept that in strong conditions they will drag/re-anchor and repeat the process until conditions calm down (although I have never crewed on a large ship, so perhaps this impression is wrong).

Here is picture of a large ship sharing an anchorage with us in 50k of wind:



I dont often see these large ship anchors underwater. They are usually in deep water and frankly snorkling around the front of small boats that are anchored is dangerous enough. But here is a typical large anchor doing OK, but still not well buried:



This next example is doing poorly. It has twisted to be 90° to the correct orientation, so only one fluke is contacting the substrate:



We are fortunate with our smaller boats to enjoy far more developed and sophisticated anchors than are used on large ships, but anchoring techniques are not really the same. Large ships rely on chain to provide most of the holding power so the anchor design is less important.
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Old 27-01-2018, 02:33   #2804
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

Interesting. Thanks for the response.
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Old 27-01-2018, 05:16   #2805
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting

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Where are the photos of those M or dickie bow style anchors ships and trawlers have? They obviously work well enough, but I've never seen one on a sailing vessel.


Also as an addendum to that. Ships anchors only work OK at the scale they’re made. But like lots of things, they don’t scale well. The design doesn’t lend itself to being small.
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