New Windlass Twisting Line / Chain - Change 3-strand or Add Anchor Swivel ?

[Northeaster]

Hi Folks,

I installed a Maxwell Freedom 500 Windlass about a month ago. I have only used it about 6 - 8 times and it worked flawlessly.

(sidenote - so far really impressed with the Manson Supreme. Sets super quick and has to be broke out, by motoring ahead, a few time already)

Now, however, it has started to jamb when letting the line out, especially near the rope to chain splice. I went to the anchor locker to have a look, and the chain had a couple of twists in it, near the spice to the rope. The 3 stand line had a twist as well.

It retrieves the line and chain just fine. It is letting it out where the problem arrises. I do suspect, however, that the retrieval of the 3 stand is putting the twists in it, and therefore the chain.

I know that the manufatcurer and people here recommend the 8 plait over 3 strand, but the manufacturer does say 3 strand will work.

Is this where my probem is coming from for sure, or could it be that I don't have an anchor swivel??? Would a swivel prevent twists 50 ft away, where the chain is spiced to the line?

Which is the most likely culprit? I have 250 ft of 1 year old 3-strand, so I was hoping to be able to use it! However, going to the anchor locker each time, to undo a few twists is not exactly convenient, so I have to do something!

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Northeaster]

Waiting to hear back from Waxwell, to get their opinion of which way to go.

Anyone with real world experience that has had / overcome this twisting?

[marc2012]

Sometimes turning the rope around solves the problem.marc

[Northeaster]

Thanks Marc - it is very new line, only 1 year old. You do have me thinking (a bit) though. The line was essentiallly new, and fairly straight / untwisted, when I 1st loaded it into the chain locker, with the windlass. This likley put several twists in in, as it passed around the vertial windlass gypsy. Now, it is stored in the locker with these twists. As it goes back out the windlass it gets untwisted again. I may try to untwist it all now, inside the boat, and then let it out with the windlass, so it effectivley puts a twist the other way. Then as I bring it in, it may untwist it back to normal in the locker.

I am not sure if there is a best way to load a windlass, but in hindsight, maybe I should have feb the line up from the anchor locker the 1st time, so it started in the locker, without any twists, instead of starting on deck.

[delmarrey]

I've tried it and a swivel doesn't work when raising the anchor (under load). It only works when the chain is slack (laying on the bottom/ground).

I about lot my mast due to a twisted up chain hanging up in the spillpipe (long story) due to the twisting of the 3-strand.

So, now I've changed the three strand for a multi-plait except for a shore line or extra anchor line for manual deploy.

I've looked at the 6-plait and the 8-plait and didn't like the way they loosen up when they go slack. They could hang up on small sharp corners. But I did find a multi-plait distributed by Anchorlift and their price was even slightly lower per foot for a 300' section.

You can see the difference in rodes.......


.

[forsailbyowner]

Are you sitting in one place through a bunch of tide changes? That is when it most happens to me. If I plan on hanging around in one area for an extended stay, I've taken to putting #2 and #3 in opposite directions with a swivel and mooring ball in center. Some plusses are, you can quickly cast off if someone drags into you and still have bower ready, and trips to pumpout and water/fuel docks are easier. Seems to hold well also. I dig in #3 which is a big danforth in the direction of strongest prevailing wind and doont have to worry about it during wind shifts as its always straight pull.

[Northeaster]

Del - thanks for the feedback. I have heard some people going to 12-strand plait, instead of 6 or 8. However, the windlass manufacturer recommends 8 plait on their website. Of course, says 3 stand will work as well! Maybe they will update their recommendation to 12 strand some day, and take 3 strand off as acceptable.

Forsail - No, I have not been staying put through numerous tide changes, for days on end. I am not a full-time cruiser, just a weekender. Only stay in one spot for one night. Their is a 5 ft tide here, but last time I barely swung around as it was so calm in the anchorage.

Bear in mind this is essentially new line, that worked great the first few times it went through the windlass, but now seems to be twisting / kinking alot. I will likely order 8 strand plait soon, but again, just wanted to hear from you guys, the folks with experience first.

[Highlander40]

I have seen my all chain rode get tumbled in the chain locker.
When letting chain out it will jam sometimes.

I would think that the heavyer chain would find its way under / into / around the line part of the rode, causing the same problem.

Line that lays flat will probly work best, AKA plait line.

[trinescape]

I had twisting problems on my tri a fellow yachtie at our club said ,''you need a swivel to cancel that twist '' so to cut a long story short i fitted the strongest s/s one that our local marine store sold and hey presto no more twisting or binding ! i did let all the chain and rode out and then retreved it and as i said no more twisting and fouling at the under side of our anchor winch in the chain locker cheers andy

[trinescape]

Forgot to mention our chain length is 60m of 10mm s/l and the rode is another 60m of 3 strand rope

[forsailbyowner]

New line sometimes has the twist from being coiled on the spool. I've heard of people dragging it behind the boat for a spell till it gets to its natural lay. I usually work it out by hand laid out on the dock. Do the same thing for hoses and extension cords after they've been rolled up and not rolled out .

[Northeaster]

thanks for the great advice guys. I will likely try adding a swivel and dragging / staightening out the line this weekend. If that dosn't make a big difference, I will order the 8 strand plait. It would be better in the locker, as it would lay flatter, and leave more room for the chain to freefall, before hitting the pile. I didn't know I would be adding a windlass when I bought 200 ft of new 3 strand last year. Otherwise, I'd have gone for the plait for a bit more cash at that time. Live and learn!