Mantus real world experience

[FranklinGray]

I saw that there was a nasty thread going on about the Mantus anchor. It's closed so I decided to make my own thread as you will understand why when I am done.

First off, my relation to Mantus is that I am a friend of the owner, Greg. We've known each other for years as we were at the same marina and I knew him before he went cruising and before he made his anchor.

Something about Greg is that when he gets an idea, he gets really excited about it and puts a lot of energy in it. When he came back from cruising and was showing me his prototypes, I thought he had lost it. Too much sun on his leg to Galapagos I figured

He was hauling all his prototypes around and testing and, well, if you ran into him in the middle of the night, he'd stop you and stop what he was doing and show you all the designs. It was really cool to see somebody so into anchors...I've always had a thing for anchors...it's one of the first things I look at on a boat.

Anyway, When I left to go cruising in March of 2012 I got one of his anchors. I needed a good backup primary anchor. My primary, primary anchor is a Bulwagga and I have ridden out a hurricane (ike) on it with 100 knots of wind for several hours. I also have two fortress fx-37s for hurricanes (during Ike I only had the Bulwagga and one fortress). Fortresses are not good primary anchors so I needed a backup. I love my Bulwagga but they are terrible in storing so no way was I getting another for a backup. The Mantus fit this bill perfectly due to it's ability to be taken apart.

Greg wanted real world experience on his anchor so I used it often. I used it in Key West where the current changed a lot and was strong. I used it in Miami where it was a 3 knot current. I used it in Green Turtle where everybody says holding sucks. I used it riding out hurricane Sandy in Marsh Harbor with 100 knots of wind.

Due to me using both the Bulwagga and Mantus extensively and each on a 100 knot hurricane, I can tell you that:

1) the Mantus holds better than the Bulwagga and that is saying something (I rode out a depression - 50 knots - in Bimini for 6 hours with another boat tied up beside me and both of us on my 45 lb Bulwagga).

2) There is abolutely nothing weak about the Mantus.

3) It always set first time, even in grass and weeds, and no drag was noticable in setting or holding. I always back it down for 30 second at 2600 rpm in reverse.

4) I think Mantus is a better all around anchor than the Bulwagga but I like having both and because I have both and the fact that the Mantus is storable and the Bulwagga isn't, that is why it is my backup.

As for the rollbar, I believe you are much better off with it on there, but if I had to choose between a Mantus without a rollbar and a CQR or Bruce or Delta, I'd take the Mantus without the bar.

Below is a link to my blog that I was writing. I got tired of writing it and didn't like certain people being able to follow my moves so I stopped writing on it. I'm still cruising and still using my Mantus every now and then. I hope this answers some of the questions like real world experience, strength and so on. To be honest, I thought I answered those questions months ago after posting on here about my experience riding out Sandy. I guess not. There is a better writeup about it on my blog someplace.

Now, as to why I am writing this? I don't have any vested interest in how the company Mantus does. In fact, if it failed today, it might be better for me because then maybe Greg would go back to cruising and we might cross paths again. The real reason is, I wish all boats had a Mantus on board. I am so sick and tired of seeing boats drag and me having to worry about getting hit. I also find it so funny that everybody seems to blame the bottom, not the anchor. Sailors will be out there for 30 minutes trying to get anchored and I come in, drop right where they first tried and am all set and in my hammock having a beer in 5 minutes. There really is something to having a good anchor. The more Mantus sells, the safer I feel on anchor.

Dreamboat and it's crazy Captain

Franklin

And yes, I barely post on here. I got burned out on these boards years ago. I usually only end up here via a google search for something I'm researching.

[FranklinGray]

and BTW, Greg isn't after your money. He is a Doctor and has money to blow...in fact, he is blowing a lot of money on this. This is really just a passion of his much like we have a passion for sailing and cruising.

[FranklinGray]

Forgot to say, my Mantus is a 45' on a Hunter 376 for those who want to know.

[Mantus Anchors]

Hey Franklin, thanks
I got an idea.... Remember you asked for a bracket to store an anchor....on the push pit?

Mantus Anchor Bracket - YouTube

This way the Mantus can go on the Bow....

[sabray]

Excellent design I really think you have something here. Please tell me the specs. What stainless grade? how you weld it? what the brackets are made of? are all fasteners the same grade?I'm a little gun shy of anchor guys. So it really helps if you just put these on the table now. Last thing I want is a failed bracket leaving a 65 pound chunk of steel flying around.

[FranklinGray]

Yes, I want one, actually two, I just have to figure out how to get it to me. Shipping to here is a pain in the butt. My next destination might be easier or I might just wait until I get back to Kemah, either by boat or plane. A lot of my future plans rides on what the weather is going to do this winter.

I also want a couple hooks as well, maybe even a bridal. Oh yeah, and a dinghy anchor. I gave the one I bought to Rita and Ralph as a castoff present. I ordered another from here through the local shipping but they screwed up the order.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by FranklinGray

Yes, I want one, actually two, I just have to figure out how to get it to me. Shipping to here is a pain in the butt. My next destination might be easier or I might just wait until I get back to Kemah, either by boat or plane. A lot of my future plans rides on what the weather is going to do this winter.

I also want a couple hooks as well, maybe even a bridal. Oh yeah, and a dinghy anchor. I gave the one I bought to Rita and Ralph as a castoff present. I ordered another from here through the local shipping but they screwed up the order.

Franklin, if you're a friend of Greg's, perhaps you can convince him to repost the analysis his engineer, Mr. Taylor, posted that mysteriously disappeared from the thread. It contained calculations that showed that a Mantus with a mild steel shank and a yield strength of 250 MPa was half as strong as the same Mantus made of A514 with a yield strength of 700 MPa (3 times stronger). It's the post that Brian from Fortress was referring to in this post: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1373860, and that contained the chart below.

Not sure why this information was removed after the thread was closed, but it was an interesting analysis that puts some hard numbers to the question of shank integrity that took the discussion from feelings to Mantus' conception of hard data.

[FranklinGray]

I don't know his engineer and I don't have any pull with Greg. He'll do something just as much for you as he would for me. He doesn't play favorites. Just send him a message to the mantus email. That's how I talk to him these days.

Personally, I have a real hard time believing that the shank on his anchor is weaker than the chain I use with it. You can quote all the numbers you want, but I've tested it in a Cat 2 hurricane with the eye going right over me, that's all I need to know. How many of you are going to be in worse conditions?

[cheoah]

I'd buy one, but I have some credit at West Marine (long story) so I have to get another brand, maybe Manson.

I'm ready for a new anchor, gonna sell my genuine Bruce and CQR and recoup some of the costs. I figure if I haven't dragged on them through big storms, I can really sleep on a newer, bigger, concave, sharp pointed, temporary mooring unit.

I'll request it through West in CA, maybe they'll pick it up eventually. Maybe not, I don't know the back story. I'm all about supporting a small business like this, if it is what I think it is, but unless I'm missing something, I'm not gonna get it through West... That's just the way it has to be this time.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by FranklinGray

I don't know his engineer and I don't have any pull with Greg. He'll do something just as much for you as he would for me. He doesn't play favorites. Just send him a message to the mantus email. That's how I talk to him these days.

Personally, I have a real hard time believing that the shank on his anchor is weaker than the chain I use with it. You can quote all the numbers you want, but I've tested it in a Cat 2 hurricane with the eye going right over me, that's all I need to know. How many of you are going to be in worse conditions?

I doubt that any anchor shank would present a problem in a straight pull, whatever it was made of. I think the only technical question is the impact of metallurgy on side loading of a shank, and that is what Mr. Taylor's calculations addressed. But your suggestion to pose the question directly to Greg is a good one, although I would rather get the answer publicly, since Mantus already has owners with mild steel shanks who would no doubt be interested in the answer.

So, Greg, could you repost Mr. Taylor's analysis of comparative shank strengths so the data can be discussed? Much appreciated....

[bobconnie]

We have never met the owner of Mantus anchors or have we done any bizz with him as yet! But we did deliver a 48ft power boat from Galveston to Miami that had a Mantus anchor.Im not sure of the weight but Im sure it was at least a 50LB anchor. All I can say is we were impressed with it !! It hooked so hard I was dumbfounded!! This boat had controls on the flying bridge that worked great , but the anchor is the best Ive ever used!! Ive been a Danforth anchor man for ever, and this anchor really empressed me! So much that when we bought our current boat we tryed to find out if we could fit one on it! The set up on our boat won't work with any of the New Age anchors! If it did fit there would be a Mantus on board her right now !! Just my 2 cents for what thats worth !

[FranklinGray]

Considering there are hundreds of these anchors out in the real world and I haven't heard of any bent shafts, then it sounds to me like somebody is trying to drum up bad press.

I used to use a Danforth anchor years ago and one night I anchored in a current area. The rode got wrapped about my wing keel in the middle of the night and I didn't realize it until a 50 knot thunder storm blew in. It was 2005 memorial day weekend in Galveston. I remember it well because at another anchorage a few miles away many boats ended up on the rocks.

My Danforth did really good at holding me but it took me two hours to get it up the next morning. I rode the storm out taking the 50 knots on the beam and the boat was healed over about 45-50 degrees. The shaft bent about 10 degrees on it so I guess the anchor didn't rotate in the sandy mud, clay stuff in Galveston Bay.

Moral of the story, anchor held, boat didn't sink, anchor came up and was still good for a couple more years until I got tired of the resetting problem with it -- typical for Danforths. Bent shanks are not that common but they do happen to just about any anchor giving unusual circumstances. However, if it was a cast iron shaft, well, that is something to be concerned about.

Now if that was a Mantus, well, as Greg said, just let him know and he will ship you a new shank. How many other manufactures can do that?

So tell me Mr Delfin, are you trying to drum up bad publicity? I don't know the numbers and don't really care. It may be the weakest shaft of all anchors, but it sure does seem to be much stronger than my old Danforth shaft and that is saying something considering what it took for me to bend it just 10 degrees. So maybe all this numbers talk is just that, talk.

Now I've said my piece. There were people on this board that wanted real world experiences so that is why I made the thread. Let me get back to watching the weather for my next leg.

BTW: sorry about my blog being confusing. I got the idea to write it that way from an old friend who used to send out the yearly Christmas letter written by the family dog. I always loved that letter so I tried to duplicate the idea. It's very hard to do and I'm not a good writer so, well, that's what you get a confusing blog.

To summarize, the storm was just supposed to be a tropical storm so I just setup my anchors to give the Mantus a good test. It wasn't until it turned into a Cat 2 and was in Bahama's waters and too late to do my normal setup for storms so I ended up riding out the first half of the storm on only the Mantus and then the second half of the storm only on the FX-37 due to the 180 wind shift. I could tell by how the anchors were setup that the Mantus only dragged a few inches and that was so it could dig in deeper. The rollbar was 6 inches below the surface after the storm. I wanted to take pictures of it but there was nothing to take a picture of.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by FranklinGray

Considering there are hundreds of these anchors out in the real world and I haven't heard of any bent shafts, then it sounds to me like somebody is trying to drum up bad press.

I used to use a Danforth anchor years ago and one night I anchored in a current area. The rode got wrapped about my wing keel in the middle of the night and I didn't realize it until a 50 knot thunder storm blew in. It was 2005 memorial day weekend in Galveston. I remember it well because at another anchorage a few miles away many boats ended up on the rocks.

My Danforth did really good at holding me but it took me two hours to get it up the next morning. I rode the storm out taking the 50 knots on the beam and the boat was healed over about 45-50 degrees. The shaft bent about 10 degrees on it so I guess the anchor didn't rotate in the sandy mud, clay stuff in Galveston Bay.

Moral of the story, anchor held, boat didn't sink, anchor came up and was still good for a couple more years until I got tired of the resetting problem with it -- typical for Danforths. Bent shanks are not that common but they do happen to just about any anchor giving unusual circumstances. However, if it was a cast iron shaft, well, that is something to be concerned about.

Now if that was a Mantus, well, as Greg said, just let him know and he will ship you a new shank. How many other manufactures can do that?

So tell me Mr Delfin, are you trying to drum up bad publicity? I don't know the numbers and don't really care. It may be the weakest shaft of all anchors, but it sure does seem to be much stronger than my old Danforth shaft and that is saying something considering what it took for me to bend it just 10 degrees. So maybe all this numbers talk is just that, talk.

Now I've said my piece. There were people on this board that wanted real world experiences so that is why I made the thread. Let me get back to watching the weather for my next leg.

BTW: sorry about my blog being confusing. I got the idea to write it that way from an old friend who used to send out the yearly Christmas letter written by the family dog. I always loved that letter so I tried to duplicate the idea. It's very hard to do and I'm not a good writer so, well, that's what you get a confusing blog.

To summarize, the storm was just supposed to be a tropical storm so I just setup my anchors to give the Mantus a good test. It wasn't until it turned into a Cat 2 and was in Bahama's waters and too late to do my normal setup for storms so I ended up riding out the first half of the storm on only the Mantus and then the second half of the storm only on the FX-37 due to the 180 wind shift. I could tell by how the anchors were setup that the Mantus only dragged a few inches and that was so it could dig in deeper. The rollbar was 6 inches below the surface after the storm. I wanted to take pictures of it but there was nothing to take a picture of.

Am I trying to "drum up bad publicity" by asking for clarity on information Mantus has posted? No, I don't think so, although I have noticed that when it comes to anchors, people seem to attribute bad motives to anyone who asks simple questions that should be simple to answer. It happened when questions began to be asked about the Rocna, with the people asking the questions being routinely accused of bad faith. So, it's not surprising that some should suspect that I have some interest other than curiosity that motivates my questions.

Which remain unanswered, by the way. My current questions are as follows:

1. Is the information posted by Mantus on the relative strengths of their and competitive anchor shafts that has been disappeared from the closed thread accurate? If so, could that information be re-posted so we can learn from it?
2. If the information that was sanitized from the closed thread was inaccurate, what does that say about other assertions regarding safety, strength, etc. the manufacturer makes?
3. If the current mild steel shank is strong enough for real world conditions, why is it being changed to A514? Which by the way, I think a great idea and will only make what is a fine anchor even better. But the question remains - if it isn't broke, why go to the expense of fixing it? And if it is broke, does that mean the existing shanks should be replaced for safety reasons?
4. Is the Mantus safe to use, as implied by company videos, without the hoop? Put another way, would Mantus recommend using the anchor without the hoop on the West Coast of Vancouver Island during a full gale? If so, just say so directly. If not, just say so directly.

Part of my confusion stems from trying to figure out what Mantus' position is on some of these issues based on their statements. They have variously stated that a). the shank has been replaced with A514 steel, b). the shank will be changed in the future to A514 steel, and c). the replacement of the shank to A514 steel is being delayed because they are busy answering stupid questions on Forums. If you can figure out what is going on here, let me know. I'm confused.

I understand that there are cheerleaders for this product, and their cheers may be warranted. There are cheerleaders for CQR anchors for heavens sake, so what else is new? However, pretending that people who ask for answers to the reasonable questions above are unprofessional, witch hunting or deserving of censorship doesn't do much to engender confidence from people like me, who couldn't give a rat's rear end whether Mantus succeeds or fails, other than a general desire for all entrepreneurs to have their hard work rewarded.

p.s. On the basis that you rode out half a hurricane on a Mantus, and the other half on a 21 lb. Fortress, what should I make of the claim by Mantus that their product is the "safest" anchor? I'm sure you see my point, and also appreciate that someone might unfairly ask if you are "trying to drum up good publicity" for Mantus, given your lack of commentary on equivalent performance of the lighter Fortress.

[FranklinGray]

Now let me get this straight, you are worried about the shank on the Mantus when you are sporting a cast steel claw on your bow? Now that is funny.

The reason I suspect you as a plant is you keep asking the same question over and over again and then try to ask it another way by trying to get me to talk to Greg. Oh please, you sound like...well, I better not say or I will get in trouble.

All you have to do is ask once. If he feels like answering, then he will. Asking over and over again makes it seem like you have an agenda.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by FranklinGray

Now let me get this straight, you are worried about the shank on the Mantus when you are sporting a cast iron claw on your bow? Now that is funny.

The reason I suspect you as a plant is you keep asking the same question over and over again and then try to ask it another way by trying to get me to talk to Greg. Oh please, you sound like...well, I better not say or I will get in trouble.

All you have to do is ask once. If he feels like answering, then he will. Asking over and over again makes it seem like you have an agenda.

Actually, I have an 80 kg Ultra on my bow, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the shank strength of a Mantus. And the reason I've asked the same questions more than once is because they remain unanswered, even if easily addressed by someone wishing to be forthright.

Since you identified yourself as a "friend of Greg", I thought since Mantus has ignored all other requests for clarity, perhaps you could ask, but apparently not. Some questions are best left unanswered, I suppose, so please, enjoy your equipment decisions.