Can you help me identify my chain size!!??

[massnspace]

Just bought a new sailboat. The MUIR windlass I was so excited about just bit the dust tho. I am researching new windlasses/gypsies and ideally would like the new windlass to work with the old chain (it is in good shape and I have a lot). The problem is I cannot seem to figure out what size it is. Here is my conundrum:

Old chain is marked with 3B, so I know that is the type.

Current windlass gypsy is marked "5/16"...and before it broke seemed to work fine.

When I measure the actual chain, tho, the link diameter is NOT 5/16". I measure it at slightly over 3/8" (13/32" is my best guess. And yes, I know how to use a tape measure.)

So I am confused. Do I have 5/16" or 3/8" or 13/32" BBB? And, if not 5/16", why was the old gypsy marked as such?

Thanks for replying if you can help.

[Orion Jim]

It would appear you have 3/8 BBB chain and the PO was using a 5/16 gypsy. Some people like to live dangerously. Match your gypsy to your chain and you won't have and issues with slippage. It can be merely inconvenient or it can be a disaster when the chain and gypsy do not match.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Pull up a chart or data table which shows "anchor chain link dimension sizes". And from there a set of calipers should tell you what you need to know.
However, you can also snip off a length of chain & take it along to wherever you're shopping for gypsys. Though the reverse is preferable, sans snipping the chain of course.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by massnspace

Old chain is marked with 3B, so I know that is the type.

Congratulations! You have a grade of chain that dates to about 1905, when the commercial standard of BBB chain emerged.


The origin is the grade of butt-welded chain made from Burden’s Best Best iron (in contrast to BB chain, made of Burden’s Best iron, which was in turn of higher quality than Burden’s ‘merchant grade’ iron).


Henry Burden (1791-1871) was a Scot who moved to the USA in 1821 and in 1822 became factory supervisor of the Troy Iron & Nail Factory in Troy, NY.


In 1848 Henry Burden became the sole owner of the Troy Iron & Nail Factory, after more than a decade of him purchasing parcels of stock as they became available on the market.


Burden renamed the Troy Iron & Nail Factory as the Burden Iron Works under the corporate entity of Henry Burden & Sons.


The Burden Iron Works was liquidated in 1939. Republic Steel Corporation bought the Burden blast furnace and operated it until about 1970.

[S/V Alchemy]

You say nothing about the sailboat, the ground tackle size or your typical cruising pattern. Without that information, I could guess your chain size, but not whether it's remotely appropriate for your anchoring needs. Only knowing that can we move to advising about the right windlass, etc.

I'm suggesting that if the previous owner fudged on the gypsy sizing in a slipshod manner, jumping chain being potentially deadly, I would question every assumption about whether whatever you've got is appropriate or capable of more lifespan on your watch.

[skipmac]

The most critical issue with matching chain and gypsy is not the diameter of the steel rod used to make the links like 3/8" or 5/16" but matching the spacing of the pockets in the gypsy and the links per foot of the chain.

The gypsy on my Simpson Lawrence works two different chain sizes that came with the boat. The main rode is all chain 3/8" BBB but the spare rope/chain rode has 50' of a 5/16" chain whose type I forget but if I recall it was 5/16" G40 which fits perfectly in the gypsy.

In the owner's manual for the windlass it lists a number of chain types for each size gypsy. For mine that includes a mix of 3/8", 5/16" 9mm and 10mm.

So you need to match the links/ft which you can do by measuring but to be really sure buy a 1-2' piece of chain and test it.

[Panacea2183]

Originally Posted by massnspace

Just bought a new sailboat. The MUIR windlass I was so excited about just bit the dust tho. I am researching new windlasses/gypsies and ideally would like the new windlass to work with the old chain (it is in good shape and I have a lot). The problem is I cannot seem to figure out what size it is. Here is my conundrum:

Old chain is marked with 3B, so I know that is the type.

Current windlass gypsy is marked "5/16"...and before it broke seemed to work fine.

When I measure the actual chain, tho, the link diameter is NOT 5/16". I measure it at slightly over 3/8" (13/32" is my best guess. And yes, I know how to use a tape measure.)

So I am confused. Do I have 5/16" or 3/8" or 13/32" BBB? And, if not 5/16", why was the old gypsy marked as such?

Thanks for replying if you can help.

You do not state where the boat was from US EUROPE?
Make sure your windlass gypsy is made for US chain.
I bought a trawler made in Tiwan had a well know brand of windlass (can't remember name) specified DIN 766 spec chain, PO had replaced with 3/8 G4
And skipped BAD!
After weeks of searching (in US) thought I found a vendor that had the right stuff. After 2 different shipments of chain (guaranteed to be DIN 766 no dice).
The only place this stuff is available is Europe and shipping is prohibitive.
Ended up replacing windlass as parts were no longer available anyway and now works flawlessly.
If your gypsy is stamped 5/16 it should be US standard, go with G4 chain
If you don't have the manual, contact the manufacture for specs.
Miss matched chain is a disaster waiting to happen! Read lost fingers, fouled rode etc.
An expensive mistake.
PS: you don't mention the size of the boat. if your a cruiser all chain is the only way to go, remember this is a safety issue don't skimp on ground tackle, the heavier the better, first time your caught in a blow you'll be glad you got the right stuff. Good luck

[knockabout]

if it wasn't jumping before /use the same gypsy on the new winch

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by skipmac

The most critical issue with matching chain and gypsy is not the diameter of the steel rod used to make the links like 3/8" or 5/16" but matching the spacing of the pockets in the gypsy and the links per foot of the chain.

The gypsy on my Simpson Lawrence works two different chain sizes that came with the boat. The main rode is all chain 3/8" BBB but the spare rope/chain rode has 50' of a 5/16" chain whose type I forget but if I recall it was 5/16" G40 which fits perfectly in the gypsy.

In the owner's manual for the windlass it lists a number of chain types for each size gypsy. For mine that includes a mix of 3/8", 5/16" 9mm and 10mm.

So you need to match the links/ft which you can do by measuring but to be really sure buy a 1-2' piece of chain and test it.

Interesting.... I found that 5/16" G40 did not fit my Ideal Windless (3/8" BBB wildcat) at all. But that 5/16" G70 worked fine.

Here is a little write up I made. 5/16" G70 chain | Morgan le Fay

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Interesting.... I found that 5/16" G40 did not fit my Ideal Windless (3/8" BBB wildcat) at all. But that 5/16" G70 worked fine.

Here is a little write up I made. 5/16" G70 chain | Morgan le Fay

Now that I read your comment I may have misspoken. I measured and tested so many different chain samples I have lost track of which was which. I do have some unmarked 5/16" chain that came with the boat that fits the same gypsy that carries the main chain rode which is definitely 3/8" BBB.

I believe the 5/16" G40 fit my spare gypsy which also fits 9mm DIN chain.

My plan was to buy new 5/16" G40 when I replace the 3/8 BBB but I got a deal on some 3/8 BBB so for now guess the G40 is a plan for the future.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Now that I read your comment I may have misspoken. I measured and tested so many different chain samples I have lost track of which was which. I do have some unmarked 5/16" chain that came with the boat that fits the same gypsy that carries the main chain rode which is definitely 3/8" BBB.

I believe the 5/16" G40 fit my spare gypsy which also fits 9mm DIN chain.

My plan was to buy new 5/16" G40 when I replace the 3/8 BBB but I got a deal on some 3/8 BBB so for now guess the G40 is a plan for the future.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what made chain fail in a windlass. It is almost Voodoo! Just the variation in wildcat shapes changes what will fit.

I did not doubt your memory, just added your experience in to what I had heard to work.

In the end testing specific chain on "your" windlass will be loads better than any theory.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by evm1024

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what made chain fail in a windlass. It is almost Voodoo! Just the variation in wildcat shapes changes what will fit.

I did not doubt your memory, just added your experience in to what I had heard to work.

In the end testing specific chain on "your" windlass will be loads better than any theory.

Don't know why you shouldn't doubt my memory, I certainly do.

Voodoo I think is it and yes the gypsies on different brands of windlasses can look very different and makes you wonder how they all work.

Testing does seem to be the only sure way. That's why have a box full of 2' pieces of different chains.

[evm1024]

(Let's see if I can reply in the correct thread....)


I just found a site with old SL manuals: http://slspares.co.uk/instruction-manuals-pdf.php

I also just read your thread from 2010 which is a good read for chain sizing.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ass-47229.html


ps

I'm on the went coast of USA and my mother-in-law is from Vladivostok. When we first took her to see the Oregon Pacific Coast she said:

"Yes, it looks the same from the other side"

I guess that for her the Ocean is not bluer on the other side