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Old 04-04-2016, 02:14   #61
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

It really depends whats on the bottom if you are anchoring in an anchorage with a soft bottom that is well plowed up by other people anchoring ,then the cqr can drag.
Generally speaking technique of anchoring correctly with consideration of the bottom
would count more than type of anchor IMO.I use a CQR a Bruce and a Danforth.
All genuine and well over sized.I tend to use the Big Bruce in sand I have been anchored
in 60 knots and after the wind had passed the Bruce was over 2 feet below the surface
of the sand no appreciable drag.
There is a big difference between genuine and non genuine Bruce's the non genuine does not have the same size little lip which is vital to tuning it to dig in.
I have also seen welded anchor shafts bent 45degrees and have seen shafts pull off welded anchors. The Bruce was designed to hold Oil rigs in the North Sea.
The huge ones are still made but the small yacht ones are not.
The Bruce will do me a big forged lump .
All anchors struggle in weed and rock picking your spot to get the anchor in correctly is more important than anchor design ,in my experience if you have a good anchor
and put it in badly it will drag come to the Med and see the panic when the wind blows though an anchorage.
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Old 04-04-2016, 02:23   #62
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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The Bruce will do me a big forged lump
In fact, genuine Bruce yacht anchors are cast, not forged. Good quality castings, with some post-casting heat treatment IIRC, and they are bloody strong! The copies seem to fail in most comparisons: holding power, strength, finish, galvo quality etc. We used one for years, but have found our Supreme to be a better anchor for our usage.

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Old 04-04-2016, 02:34   #63
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

I stand corrected ,I have never seen a genuine Bruce damaged. I found mine on the sea
bed with a broken stainless shackle nearby.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:05   #64
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

One other thing that comes up with Danforths and probably Fortress anchors, though I haven't used one yet: if the anchor has been deeply set in mud, or sand for that matter, take your time in pulling it out! It will take a little time of gentle lifting to loosen it up or you can bend/break the anchor or your bow roller in the process. Plows and Bruces etc. come out pretty quick, but not so the big flukes.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:06   #65
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

While it is becoming more widely heard that new generation anchors out-perform old generation models in common sand, mud, or clay bottoms, I don't know whether the same has been found to be true in more difficult bottoms such as grass, weeds, rocks, or soft mud.

Additionally, the durability of some of the new generation models has come into question on occasion with their thinner shanks (which was noted in the Panope / Steve videos), as well as the grade of steel being used in their manufacturing.

By contrast, I don't believe that the structural strength of a genuine Bruce or CQR was ever even a mild concern.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:39   #66
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Anchoring like most things in life comes down to the user. Your old anchors have not failed you because you know what your doing.
The old convex anchors leave little room for error. So upgrading to a new generation concave anchor will eliminate most of that room for error. So you spend less time on anchor duty.
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Old 04-04-2016, 17:28   #67
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Anchoring like most things in life comes down to the user. Your old anchors have not failed you because you know what your doing.

The old convex anchors leave little room for error. So upgrading to a new generation concave anchor will eliminate most of that room for error. So you spend less time on anchor duty.

If only it was so simple, there would be no anchoring issues left by now.


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Old 04-04-2016, 17:38   #68
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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While it is becoming more widely heard that new generation anchors out-perform old generation models in common sand, mud, or clay bottoms, I don't know whether the same has been found to be true in more difficult bottoms such as grass, weeds, rocks, or soft mud.

Additionally, the durability of some of the new generation models has come into question on occasion with their thinner shanks (which was noted in the Panope / Steve videos), as well as the grade of steel being used in their manufacturing.

By contrast, I don't believe that the structural strength of a genuine Bruce or CQR was ever even a mild concern.
I agree with you, and the thin shank, cut out of steel plate, of some of the new generation anchors bothers me. I bent a Delta shank, and I think that is stronger than Rocna, Manson, etc.

The CQR shank is a work of art -- forged! But utterly unchallenged, since that anchor couldn't develop enough holding force to bend even a noodle.

The hollow shank of Spade and its copies is a better idea, I think, than the simple cut out pieces of plate of the Rocna etc. Stronger, lighter, and with air in it to help the balance under water.


I bent a Fortress shank, too, but the makers -- in their typical fashion as I understand -- very generously provided me with a new one. I'm using my Fortress more and more, as it works much better (with its mud palms) in the very thin mud of some places where I anchor a lot, like the Solent. The Fortress shank is very beautiful -- I'm not sure whether it is cast or forged, but it has a slight I-beam pattern, much more elegant than the crude water jet cut plate of some other anchors. But the Fortress develops huge holding forces, and the shank is alu. The rest you can guess.
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Old 04-04-2016, 18:13   #69
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

A civilised anchor thread!

I recently discovered a problem with a new 20kg Rocna.

Anchored off a beach for the first time, had to pull it up by hand because I stuffed up and the chain slipped on my manual windlass.

They are really hard to pull out once they have set, I managed to get it up without motoring over it, but it was a real workout.

I am shopping for new chain at the moment.
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Old 05-04-2016, 03:49   #70
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

after 3 circumnavigations & hundreds of nights & days @ anchor I am of (more than) 2 minds:
1st trip we were very happy with a 35lbs & a 45lbs CQR, the only probs encountered on very firm ground (hardpacked sand)
2nd trip: 60lbs CQR, basically very content with it (falling over on the foredeck when violently setting it going astern not unknown), in a few locations we knew about from trip 1 we used a 20kg Brittany that came with the boat, no complaints about this either, but used only 3 or so times.
3rd trip: still with the 60lbs CQR, but got a 20kg Bügel to try out. I being extremely conservative when anchors are concerned tried it out & being very suspicious always watched it set with snorkel & goggles - what can I say: the 60lbs CQR ended up as spare anchor & the - lighter - Bügel as mainanchor. it did not let us down on the whole trip.
so if we ever set off again - I'll be broadminded about the anchors...
but le me affirm: those CQRs only let us down rarely!
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:28   #71
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

If you stick with the CQR be sure the hinge is in good condition.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:45   #72
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

..."the next time" will be without CQR...
currently would probably choose spade & a big fortress - but I'll be keeping an open mind (& the time hasn't come yet anyway...)
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:23   #73
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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..."the next time" will be without CQR...
currently would probably choose spade & a big fortress - but I'll be keeping an open mind (& the time hasn't come yet anyway...)
Actually the Fortress does not have to be big, just adequate to the boat size and weight of the boat and that makes for a surprising nimble and light anchor. I like your choice, it is what I have on my boat

The Fortress as the best 2th anchor has few competition on my opinion, regarding the Spade there are other anchors with not very different performance but I sailed with a Spade on the last 14 years (I guess I was one of the first to have a Spade), have tried several others but never find one that liked more.

On my previous boat I had a Spade as main and a kobra as 2th anchor. The Spade is a better anchor but the Kobra is pretty much unbeatable in what regards price/performance and it is distributed everywhere by Plastimo.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:59   #74
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Actually the Fortress does not have to be big, just adequate to the boat size and weight of the boat and that makes for a surprising nimble and light anchor. I like your choice, it is what I have on my boat

The Fortress as the best 2th anchor has few competition on my opinion, regarding the Spade there are other anchors with not very different performance but I sailed with a Spade on the last 14 years (I guess I was one of the first to have a Spade), have tried several others but never find one that liked more.

On my previous boat I had a Spade as main and a kobra as 2th anchor. The Spade is a better anchor but the Kobra is pretty much unbeatable in what regards price/performance and it is distributed everywhere by Plastimo.
Spade and Fortress -- like cookies and cream


I agree with Polux about the sizing. I have a slightly undersized Fortress as a kedge, so that it can be manhandled. An FX-37. It holds incredibly well -- holding power seems to be similar to my oversized Spade. In so many years, it has never failed to set or to hold, under any circumstances or bottom type. The way it works seems, unlike other anchors, to be unrelated to weight, so you can take advantage of this to use it in a size which allows it to be easily handled. I store it actually inside my chain locker -- it is just so convenient.


It might really be worth keeping TWO Fortresses on board -- a slightly undersized one as an easily handled kedge, stern anchor, etc., and a great big one as the ultimate storm anchor. They can be disassembled for surprisingly easy storage; they even sell a nice storage bag.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:22   #75
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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It might really be worth keeping TWO Fortresses on board -- a slightly undersized one as an easily handled kedge, stern anchor, etc., and a great big one as the ultimate storm anchor. They can be disassembled for surprisingly easy storage; they even sell a nice storage bag.
I can reinforce your thought, DH.

This is the route we, and I know many others have gone. I can highly recommend it.

A Fortress FX27 lives on the stern rail as a stern/kedge and can be deployed in the time it takes to shackle the bagged rode to it.

An FX 37 normally lives disassembled in a bag stowed below. But it can also be assembled and stowed either on a bow roller as primary or secondary bower, or the bow pulpit to be readily available using a bagged rode when needed in addition to, or in leu of, one or both bow anchors.

The pair of different [yet adequate for purpose] sized Fortress anchors make excellent, very portable additions to the primary and secondary bowers [and back-ups for same] balancing the ground tackle inventory nicely. [At least for us in our current cruising area.]

We are always happy to help you justify spending your money...

Cheers!

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