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Old 03-12-2013, 08:53   #1
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Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

Hello all - In 2011 I acquired a 1997 Mk II HR42 F with which I'm generally delighted. I find however that I tend to use the removable cutter stay to fly a storm sail much less than I should, taking instead several rolls on the 135% genoa. Not too efficient nor seamanlike, I know. Laziness + chronic short-handedness is to blame.

I was wondering whether anyone has fitted a permanent cutter stay with a furling jib (maybe a self-tacking one) on a 42? If so, what's the verdict? Must any reinforcements be made both on the spar or the deck? Must runners be used (guess so)? What's the preferred sail combination on the two resulting furlers? I cruise the Med, but much of my sailing is off season so I run into interesting weather occasionally… Many thanks in advance.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:18   #2
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

I guess the first question is where is the inner stay connected on your mast? If it is near the mast head then its a solent rig and does not need running backstays. I ask the question because it doesn't make sense that you would have a cutter stay without running backs.
Yes its easy to put a furler on either stay.
Inside tracks are commonly used for a staysail to allow a tighter sheeting angle but with a solent stay you may get by with simply 2 cars on your present track.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:01   #3
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

Robert,

There are plenty of cutters that don't need running backs, it has a lot to do with the rig design, and mast size.


Aubrey,

We had a non-overlapping sta-sail that was self tacking on a track. It worked fine, but never really had a great sail shape (compared to racing stasails I use). I don't know about your specific boat, but I would really recommend talking to a local rigger. There are some issues with installing a permanent rig that need to be addressed.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:24   #4
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

Greg,
You are correct as some of the designs had a fixed stays supporting the cutter rig, aka Tayana 37 but I didn't think that the HR was set up that way but I may be wrong.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:24   #5
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

I have a small bail low on the mast that is used for the self tacking staysail which uses a 3-1 purchase on the sheet. the clew for the sail must be located at the right height, use of clew board helps trimming too. off the wind I lazy sheet to the rail. all works fine
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:23   #6
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

A true cutter rig has the inner forestay attached to the deck at about 75% of the J dimension (the full fore and aft distance from the mast to the genoa tack) and has a longer J than a sloop. A Solent rig has it attached at 90-95% and has a more sloop like J dimension. In both cases the inner stay runs roughly parallel to the genoa stay to the mast. You can (usually) tack the genoa on a cutter with the inner forestay in place. You have to roll up the genoa to tack it on a Solent rig.

I have sailed them both- a Pacific Seacraft and Island Packet with the cutter rig and a Saga 43 with the Solent rig. I like the Solent rig for all around performance, but the cutter would get my vote for mostly offshore use due to its smaller staysail than the Solent.

I believe that for either rig you should have a furling staysail and use a Gale Sail or similar for a storm sail over the rolled up staysail if you need one. You will rarely use the Gale Sail, but a couple of main sail reefs and a full or partially furled staysail and fully furled genoa is a great heavy weather rig, good to 35-40 kts of true wind.

Jon Eiseburg a delivery skipper and putative guru on the Cruising Sailors Bulletin Board uses the staysail on a furler with a Gale Sail on his personal boat.

The Gale Sail should work equally well on the inner forestay of a Solent rig.

The Pacific Seacraft was the only one of the three boats I have sailed that had running backstays. As I understand it they are only used in really rough conditions where the mast starts pumping.

David
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Old 03-12-2013, 13:28   #7
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

It sounds like you only use the inner forestay with a storm sail. That is sort of logical with a 135% genoa. That being the case, I would simply rig the furler with...a storm sail!

It does not need to be permanent. You can keep the detachable foot and tensioner as part of your rig. This would allow you to enjoy easier tacking with the genoa for the 95% of the time you don't find yourself needing the storm jib. When you do need it, you can simply swing it out from it's parked position and attach...certainly easier than having to bring up and hank on the storm sail in addition.

You no doubt have fixed stays for the inner forestay. There is some argument about their effectiveness (the angle is very acute and does not offer optimal support), and many people replace/supplement them with running backstays. Personally I would consider that option if you're going offshore. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:50   #8
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

Belated thanks to all for yogur comments. A lot of posts I've read speak highly of the Solent rig. Howevwe , I think I'm going to go for the 'cutter' option using my current staysail strong-points on mast and deck with a roller furler. I already have the running backstays installed and we'll see if I can get away with two cars on the current genoa tracks to avoid adding dedicaded ones for the stays'l. The less hardware the better. Special thanks for the Gale Sail idea. That would allow sizing a somewhat larger staysail and resorting to the Gale Sail only in a major blow.


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Old 08-07-2014, 05:45   #9
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Re: Permanent Cutter Rig on a HR 42 F - Ideas?

Aubrey,

Take a long look at the sheeting angles before deciding to use the genoa track for the staysail cars. A staysail wants to have the sheeting point well inboard of the typical genoa track. The staysail winches also need to have a fair lead to the staysail car. Regardless, all the sheets need to be fair and not interfere with one another else tacking could get interesting.
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