Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-12-2007, 18:06   #1
Registered User
 
johneri1's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Newport, OR/Pocatello, ID
Boat: Newport MKII 30 - Solution
Posts: 192
headsail furler

By many accounts, furlers are used to reduce headsail size but [at least some] furler makers and sailmakers say not too. Besides distortion of the sail shape, does anyone know why you should or you shouldn't?
Thank you very much!
__________________

__________________
Eric
N30
johneri1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2007, 18:55   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 976
Images: 6
Hi
the basic principle of furlers has been around for years. The original fore sail furledr was used to stow the sail not reef it. The drum and rope was (is ) very similar but the sail was hanked unto a wire strop, not a aluminium profile. To keep the shape of the sail when used in the modern context, some sails now have a strip of foam pading, so as it reefs it changes shape. On boom furling is also very old. The sail was rolled to the needed size and a outhaul and cunningham reattached. This had the same problem with distorting sail shape because the sail was usually pulled down under tension.
__________________

__________________
cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2007, 19:05   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Having the sail partially furled puts a large torque load into the furler foil. I would presume the manufacturers who say not to do this haven't engineered the foil to handle those loads.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2007, 19:14   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
So are there furlers and sails designed for partial deployment?
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2007, 19:28   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
The new roller-reefing headsails have a strips (2-3) of padding sewn into most of the length the luff of the sail. This creates a cushion for the sail to wrap around the foil helping it to avoid pinching of the cloth.

It does wrinkle but the tighter is gets, it pulls out the wrinkle rather then crushing it against the foil, possibly breaking the fibers (especially on a weathered sail).

You can see a little of the strips in the upper RH of the picture....................._/)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	fullbatten 2.JPG
Views:	189
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	2314  
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2007, 19:28   #6
Registered User
 
Yotboss's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego/Mexico
Boat: TPI Lagoon 42
Posts: 63
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
So are there furlers and sails designed for partial deployment?
Simple answer is 'yes'. However, not all furlers are built for reefing; check the specs before making a decision. As others have mentioned, sails have to be built properly for reefing, i.e. with a foam luff.

Tom
__________________
Yotboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2007, 22:23   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
We have a 150 genny. We have run it at 150%, 100% and about 50%. We have the "padding" at the luff and it works pretty well.

The main issue is that with the headsail partially furled we lose pointing ability big time. The "bulge" around the foil disturbs the air and stalls the headsail early.

Our foil has two grooves so headsail changes are possible.

So while I am a huge fan of furling I would probably change sails on a passage rather than run with the inefficiency.

We arrived at the club Friday night at 5:15. The wind was great so we made the decision to go and at 5:30 we were underway and sailing with 6 hands on board and a case of beer on ice. Two hours later we were on the buoy.

The furler just makes jumping in the boat a no brainer decision. Anything that encourages one to sail more is a good thing in my book.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2007, 01:18   #8
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Most roller reefing/furling manufacturers will tell you that you can only reef efficiently by about 30% of the size of the foretriangle - i.e., a 150% genoa to 120%, a 110% to 80%. There are a couple of reasons for this: firstly, the weight of sailcloth should be heavier for a sail designed for heavy air and consequently, you are apt to blow out a 150 if used in winds that require a working jib, or something smaller; secondly, a sail is not a flat piece of material, but rather has some built in camber or 'belly' which cannot be properly taken up by rolling the sail on a straight extrusion. Foam luffs are designed to compensate for this and allow greater compression at the head and tack, resulting in better sail shape when reefed.

Think of it this way - in slab reefing on a mainsail one is usually advised to tighten only at the tack and clew and to use the short lines from the reefing cringles only for the purpose of gathering up the loose (reefed) portion at the foot of the sail. Why? Same thing, so you will not distort the shape of the sail.

So far as I know, the only furling systems currently made that are not designed for reefing are those used with screechers etc., and which are intended to be detachable.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2007, 06:02   #9
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Luff pads

I have a 110% genny on a Harken RF on my cutter rigged boat. I had foam luff pads sewn in it, and it keeps a flat shape all the way in now. In 30-35 kts, I roll it up until it just overlaps the staysail. With 2 or 3 reefs in the RF main, we're punching through the waves, pointing well, and comfortable. Before adding the luff pads, the genny's shape was so bad I couldn't reef it more than 30% or so.
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2007, 06:12   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
A good rule of thumb is that genoas should cover the following approximate apparent wind ranges (your mileage may vary):

* Light No. 1 (150%) between 0-12 knots
* Heavy No. 1 (150%) between 10-20 knots
* No. 2 (130%) between 18-24 knots
* No. 3 (110%) between 22-30 knots
* No. 4 Storm (<90%) from 26-plus knots

UNDERSTANDING HEADSAIL FURLING SYSTEMS ~ by Bill Hooper
UNDERSTANDING HEADSAIL FURLING SYSTEMS* by Bill Hooper
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2007, 23:53   #11
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Furlers are a great thing to have if you are single handing and want to stay in the cockpit...providing you get it in soon enough. I have had a Harken and now a Profurl. My vessel is a cutter/Ketch. So when it is time to reduce, I can roll it up fully and use the staysyl only.
I think there is only one reason a sailmaker would advice against furling a sail...and that is to sell you more than one sail.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2007, 00:13   #12
Registered User
 
Stranded Mariner's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Boat: Dix 43 CC, steel, 43 ft
Posts: 149
Send a message via Skype™ to Stranded Mariner
I am having a 43' Dix built with a cutter rig. I am considering a Profurl 420 for the genoa, and a Profurl 380 for the staysail. I am still not sure if I should go for that smaller furler there or not.
__________________
'How inappropriate to call this planet Earth when it is quite clearly Ocean.' - Sir Arthur C. Clarke
Stranded Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2007, 00:35   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern California
Boat: Was - Passport 45 Ketch
Posts: 837
IMHO.....Profurl is the best when set-u with a padded luff genoa.

The manuf may have a cautionary statement for CYA. Most roller-furling headsails will do a good job. I have just found that the Profurl is the easiest one to reef when the going gets rough.....that's important .
__________________
Kanani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2007, 01:01   #14
Registered User
 
Stranded Mariner's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Boat: Dix 43 CC, steel, 43 ft
Posts: 149
Send a message via Skype™ to Stranded Mariner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
IMHO.....Profurl is the best when set-u with a padded luff genoa.
That is good advice, thanks, and I will definitely order the genoa that way.
As I said I am not so sure yet about the staysail. Either another furler, or a normal staysail and a separate storm jib.
__________________
'How inappropriate to call this planet Earth when it is quite clearly Ocean.' - Sir Arthur C. Clarke
Stranded Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2007, 02:12   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Luff shaping tapes can include foam or rope along the leading edge, offering a better draft shape when partially reefed.

The Rope Luff* is claimed to last longer than foam, better resist mildew, and (unlike foam) won’t compress under load, and has no "memory".
* A tapered series of polypropylene ropes in a polyester sleeve along the sails’ luff .

Has anyone any longer-term experience with bothRopeLuff*” and Foam Reefing Pads?
* North Sails call their option “RopeLuff”
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
furler

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
recommendation for headsail furling/reefing eldiente Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 6 28-05-2007 23:00
Furling Headsail Steve Kidson Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 6 01-02-2007 14:14
Choosing a Headsail furling system Iain Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 16 09-11-2006 05:17
Help with choosing a new headsail bmiller General Sailing Forum 5 14-04-2006 20:34
Additional headsail for catamaran cjenkins Multihull Sailboats 11 27-03-2006 12:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.