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Old 25-10-2018, 05:00   #1
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Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I need some help - I have searched the various threads unsuccessfully - I need a clear sail plan for a Beneteau 473 ( built 2005 ) as I need to replace and order some new sails - I have had no help from Beneteau or Selden masts , which is very disappointing . As I understand it , there are 4 different options -
1 A standard mast height and keel depth , with a Lazybag System or an In mast furling System .

2. The optional taller mast version with the required slightly deeper keel - and again a Lazybag or In mast furling system

I need a sailplan ( diagram of dimensions ) - for the standard mast and Keel and the lazybag furling system .I would like to fit a cutter rig , so the stay and sail dimensions ( standard ) would also be of great help . I am having a trysail ( approx 10 % of main ) made to fit on either of the twin back stays , for use in heavy weather , anyone with that experience , I would love to hear from them .

Hope you can help - I live in South Africa and My boat is in Greece , so difficult
Regards Garth Gregory
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Old 25-10-2018, 05:20   #2
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Re: Garth Gregory

Garth,

I have moved your post to a more appropriate forum.

If you want the sails made properly I would have a sail maker visit and measure, though I appreciate you some distance from the yacht. If you measure or guess based on someone else's measurements and they don't fit it's your problem. Do masts differ even on the same model? oh yes.

A trysail is normally rigged from the mast rather than the backstays, not sure how the back stay could would work. Were are you thinking of going that needs a trysail? a deep 3rd or even 4th reef might be better.

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Old 25-10-2018, 12:48   #3
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I agree with all of Pete's comments. Building sails, especially mainsails, without actual measurements of the specific boat often leads to ill-fitting sails. In my experience, it is a very bad idea to do so... especially when there are multiple rig options right from the builder.

And Pete is right: trysails are NOT rigged to the backstay, but to the mast, and usually to a separate track from the mainsail. Perhaps you are thinking of a riding sail... one that you set at anchor to help hold the boat's head into the wind.

I humbly suggest that you rethink your plans and organize a visit from a sailmaker. It may cost a bit more than ordering online from some mass producer (which is what it sounds like you have in mind), but your chances of success are far higher.

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Old 25-10-2018, 13:34   #4
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I have a 2005 Beneteau 423 that I purchased 2 years ago. With it came an excellent manual that had all specs for the rig..... I am sure another 473 owner will chime in and may be able to send you those pages. Also my rig was provided by US Spars.... they have been extremely helpful with all questions I have and are very familiar with specs of rig as they still have all data on file. Finally Beneteau parts on line store has at least for my boat the specs for the rig..... I am looking to replacing all standing rigging soon and they sell it. However like was said, it is best to have a sailmaker go to the boat personally and take all measurements so that everything fits perfect.

Btw there is a Beneteau 423 group on yahoo groups that has a lot of 473 owners as members.

Good luck
Greg
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Old 26-10-2018, 02:02   #5
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

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Also my rig was provided by US Spars....
Ahh, exactly why the boat should be measured as Garths boat in Greece is likely to be a French supplied rig. If its ex charter then that could add more confusion if the charter firm spec'd something smaller for customers.

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Old 26-10-2018, 08:37   #6
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

FWIW...

We recently had a new main, mizzen, and lazy jack system with zip-up covers made by Mack in Florida for my Pearson 424 ketch. I supplied them with just a few measurements and some photos (I did have to climb the mast) and they did it all for us without ever seeing it in person. It all fits perfectly.

The Bene 473 is a fairly common cruiser. In fact there are probably a whole lot more 473's out there than Pearson 424's.

I understand there may be different variations on 473 rigs (there are a few variations on 424 rigs as well), but with a few basic measurements I'll bet a sail maker who has made 473 sails before can figure out what you have and just make them again.

Might be worth a call to Mack or one of the others.

Good luck.

Edit: Mack also shipped the sails 2000 miles to us at no additional charge. I imagine they would ship to Greece.
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Old 26-10-2018, 08:47   #7
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthGregory View Post
I need some help - I have searched the various threads unsuccessfully - I need a clear sail plan for a Beneteau 473 ( built 2005 ) as I need to replace and order some new sails - I have had no help from Beneteau or Selden masts , which is very disappointing . As I understand it , there are 4 different options -
1 A standard mast height and keel depth , with a Lazybag System or an In mast furling System .

2. The optional taller mast version with the required slightly deeper keel - and again a Lazybag or In mast furling system

I need a sailplan ( diagram of dimensions ) - for the standard mast and Keel and the lazybag furling system .I would like to fit a cutter rig , so the stay and sail dimensions ( standard ) would also be of great help . I am having a trysail ( approx 10 % of main ) made to fit on either of the twin back stays , for use in heavy weather , anyone with that experience , I would love to hear from them .

Hope you can help - I live in South Africa and My boat is in Greece , so difficult
Regards Garth Gregory
Most of 47.3 have a babystay (inner forestay) - you may use this stay for a storm jib.
At the stern, normally a 47.3 have twin backstays so it won't be normally possible to deploy a riding sail there.
I did not understand your idea of a trysail at the stern. Usually it will go on a second track on the mast.
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Old 26-10-2018, 09:16   #8
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

As has already been said, do NOT, NOT, NOT buy sails without either the sailmaker or yourself actually taking a tape measure to the rig. Measure! Don't trust the measurements of a sister ship. Don't trust the dock know-it-all, and for heavens sake don't trust the internet!

No matter how inconvenient it might be, if you do not measure the chances of getting everything to fit as they should are not great.

Not answering your question is likely the best thing Beneteau could have done for you if you were just going to turn those numbers around and send them to a sailmaker and have them start cutting.
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Old 26-10-2018, 10:34   #9
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

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Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
Most of 47.3 have a babystay (inner forestay) - you may use this stay for a storm jib.
At the stern, normally a 47.3 have twin backstays so it won't be normally possible to deploy a riding sail there.
I did not understand your idea of a trysail at the stern. Usually it will go on a second track on the mast.



I was told by a Selden rep at a boat show that the inner forestay should not be used for a staysail. I never actually followed through but it sure would make it convenient if I could. Were did you get your info? Do you know of anyone who has done this succesfully?



I think maybe the original poster might have meant the trysail was on the mast between the backstays?
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Old 26-10-2018, 10:40   #10
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I believe the standard 473 mainsail with slab reefing came with 2 reefs. Our 473 had a 3rd reef put in which I would strongly recommend given the 473 is probablu overpowered compared with many other boats. We love the versatility of having the 3rd reef. If you wanted a trysail it would be worth sizing a 3rd (or 4th) reef to suit your needs
[IFYI Skip Novak published an article - maybe in Yachting Monthly but I found it on the web - on the benefit of using an extreme reef in lieu of a trysail].
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Old 26-10-2018, 10:46   #11
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I forgot to mention the cutter rig. In my marina there was a cutter rig 473 but given the important role of the babysat in supporting the last he had a rigger give advice on the setup. You would also need to be confident of your deck attachment point. I will be interested in how things develop with the cutter rig (I always thought the 473 could work well as a cutter in lieu of the 140% genoa).
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Old 26-10-2018, 11:27   #12
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I am just curious. You already have sails, they are just old, right? Use them as a template. or am I missing something?
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Old 26-10-2018, 11:45   #13
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_V View Post
I am just curious. You already have sails, they are just old, right? Use them as a template. or am I missing something?
How much stretch would you allow for on an old sail to work out how much shorter the new sail should be?

Or you could use a steel tape measure and measure the boat.
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Old 26-10-2018, 11:51   #14
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

No clue, I am just curious. Never had to order sails before.

I was told once that dodger or bimini canvases are much easier to make if you have old ones as a template. So, I presume same could work for for sails.
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Old 28-10-2018, 09:38   #15
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Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

You can't trust the Beneteau owners manuals. I've made 473 sails and the manual was a bit out on those. I also did sails for a 523 and the boom was .5m shorter than what the user manual said.... Best to measure each boat individually to be 100% sure of sails fitting.

An amateur may try and use an old dodger or bimini as a template, but any professional would make new patterns directly off the frames on the boat. Same goes for any professional sailmaker should take direct measurements from the boat and not rely on the old sail sizes.
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