Furler using a conventional bolt rope, not a luff tape.

[GILow]

Hi all,

As per my previous question, I am converting my staysail to furling.

I was about to replace the existing luff tape with one of those weird luff tapes that have a sort of bolt-rope style edge, but I have looked very hard at the furler and I suspect it is actually designed to work with a conventional bolt rope installation.

It is an old unit gifted to me by wonderful friends, and it is in good working condition.

I cannot figure out who made it exactly, though it has Yachtmast Australia embossed on the drum.

I googled around for that one, but no luck.

Anyway, it's an odd profile. Four slots, each with a 6mm opening and wide enough to take 11 mm of bolt rope and sail cloth. (see picture, and yes, I do know that's not how you use verniers to measure the inner diameter, but it was the easiest way to show the size.)

My thinking is, I may as well leave the existing bolt rope in my staysail as it will actually slide into the slot, or maybe downsize the bolt rope ever so slightly if it is easy to do to make it move more freely.

But I've never used a furler that did not have the special dedicated luff-tape-with-bolt-rope style so I don't know if this approach would cause problems.

Any suggestions?

Matt

[Capn Jimbo]

This is a question, not an answer... Isn't an old furler with four tracks, windage, extra weight, and I assume other old and irreplaceable parts....overkill? There are some excellent and simple, bulletproof furlers - lighter and perhaps more effective (I'm thinking of the Aldao, in the $1500+/- USD range.)

http://www.aladous.com/index.htm

[GILow]

It was free.

End of story on my budget.

[Jim Cate]

Mon, dat be one weird furler foil! Never have seen the like, and can sorta understand how that design fell by the wayside!

But Matt, why not try your bolt rope in one of the slots and just see if it works? I instinctively worry about friction, but could easily be wrong. If you can get the sail up on it, and the slot isn't so wide that the bolt rope pulls out under load, I'd think it adequately strong. What does it use for bearings inside the foil?

Jim

[RaymondR]

Interesting piece of gear.

I assume the dovetails allow the semi-foils to be slid apart to allow the stay to be installed and the ID is close to the wire OD negating the need for bearings.

I suspect that since it constitutes a pretty solid piece of bar the designer put the extra grooves in to lighten it whilst retaining bending and torsional resistance.

I'd look at slightly beveling the sharp shoulder with a large countersink then see how easily the bolt rope will slide in and give it a try.

[GILow]

Hey guys, good to hear you thinking along the same lines as me.

Raymond, you interpretation of the construction and function is absolutely correct. And it is the lack of bearings that got me very excited as there really is very little to go wrong with the thing. There is a big nylon block at the bottom to take the weight while it turns, and that is something I could easily fabricate myself, something I will do if I have time as the workshop in my dirt-dwelling is well equipped for that sort of job.

I’ve had a bit of a play and decided the existing bolt rope was a tad tight, so I’ve downsized it by one “size”. It took just two minutes and a bit of creative thinking to swap the old with the new, the only downside being I managed to burn my finger while welding the old bolt rope to the new.

It certainly is a beefy bit of kit. It is from a boat that was a serious racer in her day (late 80s), so maybe it was experimental or cutting edge or something. (Afore-mentioned boat is currently enjoying a much nicer cruising lifestyle and is anchored of Keppel Island as I type, lucky buggers!)

Raymond, I’ll keep your idea of a bevel in mind, though how to do so without causing a sharp edge is a concern. My reason being, I am yet to see how well the sail wraps around the furler once it is loaded on, and maybe a bevel on one side will help lay it over.

Anyway, so far so good. And given it came from a sail with a luff 50% longer than my staysail I am able to pick and choose the best pieces for my needs. The real dilemma being what the heck to do with the leftovers... maybe all but one to the recyclers?

Off to sew the ends of the bolt rope in place.

Matt

[HeinSdL]

This profile looks like as if one of the two halves which slide together may have been replaced. I can imagine you might use one half with two grooves, joined up to a second half moon type partner with no grooves. And so a previous owner may have had the innovative idea of converting into a four groove configuration to be able to hoist for example two headsails when running.

I recently converted to furling and the only benefit I see is convenience. Firstly, I worry about the forces, they seem to be big. For this reason I would not use an unknown profile because I would not know if it is designed to withstand the large torsional forces exerted on it towards the lower end. Secondly, I really miss having the genoa hooked on to the boat. It's not mentioned much, but forestays do break and then to have the sail still holding up the mast is a nice idea (I can fill another post of three examples of forestay issues in which I had some involvement). Thirdly, I really dont like the huge air gap between sail and deck...

[RaymondR]

Looks like it was also designed with both clockwise and anti clockwise furling direction.

If the rest of it's as interesting, how about a few more images.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

This profile looks like as if one of the two halves which slide together may have been replaced. I can imagine you might use one half with two grooves, joined up to a second half moon type partner with no grooves. And so a previous owner may have had the innovative idea of converting into a four groove configuration to be able to hoist for example two headsails when running.

I recently converted to furling and the only benefit I see is convenience. Firstly, I worry about the forces, they seem to be big. For this reason I would not use an unknown profile because I would not know if it is designed to withstand the large torsional forces exerted on it towards the lower end. Secondly, I really miss having the genoa hooked on to the boat. It's not mentioned much, but forestays do break and then to have the sail still holding up the mast is a nice idea (I can fill another post of three examples of forestay issues in which I had some involvement). Thirdly, I really dont like the huge air gap between sail and deck...

Good points, and an interesting theory about the construction, hard to know but I’ve never seen an asymmetrical furler. The two halves are a mirror of each other for the whole length. The lower piece that incorporates the drum is constructed in a way the offsets the joins between each half section by exactly half the section length which makes it all very simple and strong. The furler was from a Genoa on a 36 foot Lexen Revolution so a significantly larger sail than the one I am fitting it to. I’m not too worried about strength. Really, I suspect it is way over-engineered for the task. It is certainly stronger than my yankee furler.

I agree with your concern about stay failure, however this is for a staysail, which is not critical to mast remaining upright, while my forward furler for the yankee is part of a dual forestay setup so even a failure in that arrangement does not compromise the mast stability.

The air gap issue is another good point, but with this setup I will be able to set the staysail closer to the deck than I could previously, as I will be eliminating the highfield lever arrangement and the drum is quite compact. I should be able to come down to within 250 mm of the deck, which is actually a little lower than optimal so my plan is to make the foil around 500 mm longer than needed then play with the staysail position from there.

Looking forward to setting this up to see if the staysail rolls up neatly. I haven’t been able to find a reasonable way of testing it in the garden.

[Capn Jimbo]

Free.

End of story on my budget.

Free? Is relative of course. When you consider the time, trouble, no replacement parts, weight, windage - and if fails or doesn't work out, esp at sea, is that still free? Not to mention alterations to sail, ad infinitum. And the specs of this unknown furler are likewise unknown. So free? OK. I recently decided to giveaway my 40' furler - 20 years old or even more, working fine, parts available, etc. and guess what? No one wanted it.

Furlers are so critical, and failures catastrophic that well, it all depends doesn't it. Personally $1500 is cheap insurance to avoid a serious problem at sea.

In fact - mine was better than free - mounted, up, working fine, and I didn't want an old furler. In the world of boat expenses and especially Furlers, I found the Alado - strong, simple enough for the average bozo (me) to install - without lowering the rig - able to be removed - at sea, same way - for a lousy $1500 to be a no-brainer. And it can be removed at sea.

You pays yer money - now or later... but whatever floats yer boat...

*********

BTW my mast is coming down next week, and I'll give you my furler if you pay for packing, shipping and handling. Bout' 40 ft, from a cruising 32, main furler. Nobody else wants it, and I can't blame them.

[GILow]

Well, being one of those people who actually know which end of the screwdriver to hold, and not drop it on my foot, I’m not scared of free. And frankly, having seen some of the new crap on offer I’d back this thing outlasting most of it.

As noted, there is nothing much to go wrong with this device, and what could possibly fail is easy for me to repair.

So, sorry, you are not going to convince someone like me that I need to spend thousands of dollars for peace of mind. Quite the opposite really.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Looks like it was also designed with both clockwise and anti clockwise furling direction.

If the rest of it's as interesting, how about a few more images.

I’ll grab a picture of the drum and moving bits tomorrow in the daylight. But yes, it certainly could furl in either direction, which means I can match it with the yankee furler.

[Capn Jimbo]

Knowing what end of a screwdriver to hold and not dropping it on your foot... that's funny! I guess I should fix my 20 year old furler, lol.... seriously, my good working furler is coming off and is free to anyone else who wants to roll the dice - just pay boxing, shipping and a tiny bit for my time to pack it. Let's see who else is screwdriver qualified...

Carry on mate... by the way that was simply an opinion - pretty common hereabouts - and not intended to change anyone's mind. Food for thought. We disagree. Relax my friend...

[singlespeed]

Some early furlers made a lot of noise, when the wind blew over the surfaces. Before you invest a lot of time, hoist a section to the approximate angle you will be mounting it and let a brisk breeze blow over it. You might be saving yourself and your neighbors a lot of noisy nights at anchor or on a can.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Some early furlers made a lot of noise, when the wind blew over the surfaces. Before you invest a lot of time, hoist a section to the approximate angle you will be mounting it and let a brisk breeze blow over it. You might be saving yourself and your neighbors a lot of noisy nights at anchor or on a can.

umm.... with a sail wrapped around it, the shape of the furler has nothing to do with noise generation. Perhaps you are thinking about some in-mast mainsail furling systems... they can do banshee imitations.

Jim