Critique my running backstays thoughts.

[billnz]

On my 54 ft. steel cutter 'HioLani' I removed the H Levers for that reason as well as toe kickers (ouch)& set up a permanent lower backstay to the staysail hound on bottle screws (steel was easy just weld a tang), looked clean , extra strength & forgot they were there in a week or two- very nautical look to.

[JPA Cate]

Okay, El Pinguino, is lomo liso filete de res?/ The backstrap of beef? If so, the Carminere will do nicely, indeed.

Ann

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Spend extra on some really fancy, high tech tails with exciting cover colors for the runner. Think of them as adornment jewelry for your esthetic desires.

I like your thinking.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Why would it K-not up?

Taking just one side as an example.... if you have the jib / staysail sheets loaded then the tail for the running backstay is 'lazy' and can just lie there....

When the running backstay is loaded the jib/staysail sheets are slack...

I see no conflict....

Nor do I see any need for any bungee...

Just haul in on the tricing line and make it fast somewhere....

and also... unless we are talking about Shamrock V here... I see no need for blocks and tackles... just a turning block on a lizard made fast somewhere... heave the tail tight... make fast... nada mas...

The trip to my mate's bach at Peluqui? Excellent.... good lomo liso and fine carmenere .... made up for lack of wind....

I'm gonna relax and try it.

Being at that location... that would help me relax no end.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by billnz

On my 54 ft. steel cutter 'HioLani' I removed the H Levers for that reason as well as toe kickers (ouch)& set up a permanent lower backstay to the staysail hound on bottle screws (steel was easy just weld a tang), looked clean , extra strength & forgot they were there in a week or two- very nautical look to.

Does that mean you didn't have a clearance problem?

[NormanMartin]

I had the usual SS runners and checks on a 45 ft raceboat and switched to Dyneema and flying blocks with tails to a winch. What a positive difference.

The flying blocks caused a few head injuries so I bungee corded them up the backstay. Kind of complicated and a maintenance issue with bungee chafe.

On our Aphrodite 101 (32 ft) we switched to Spectra straight to a turning block and then a winch. Very positive and no flying block. The runners do not hold the mast up, they just tension the headstay. We use them off the breeze in a chop, too.

Good discussion.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

I had the usual SS runners and checks on a 45 ft raceboat and switched to Dyneema and flying blocks with tails to a winch. What a positive difference.

The flying blocks caused a few head injuries so I bungee corded them up the backstay. Kind of complicated and a maintenance issue with bungee chafe.

On our Aphrodite 101 (32 ft) we switched to Spectra straight to a turning block and then a winch. Very positive and no flying block. The runners do not hold the mast up, they just tension the headstay. We use them off the breeze in a chop, too.

Good discussion.

Yes, I like the idea of eliminating the flying blocks for the reasons noted.

And like your current boat, my runners are just there to keep a good shape on the staysail. Thank goodness, takes some of the stress out of tacking.

[billnz]

Originally Posted by GILow

Does that mean you didn't have a clearance problem?

the permanent 'running back stay' about a foot aft of the lower aft shroud is a common set up for cutter rigged yachts of old, mainly only on masthead rigs

[GILow]

Originally Posted by billnz

the permanent 'running back stay' about a foot aft of the lower aft shroud is a common set up for cutter rigged yachts of old, mainly only on masthead rigs

Ok, I can picture that, it would solve some problems.

Tempting, but I am loathe to second guess the original designer’s thinking.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by billnz

the permanent 'running back stay' about a foot aft of the lower aft shroud is a common set up for cutter rigged yachts of old, mainly only on masthead rigs

This can work well, especially on a solid mast. There are a few compromises that are worth being aware of.

It increases the compression loads on the mast due to a poor angle aft, and generally doesn't give the same inner forestay (staysail stay)tension.

It can make tuning the rig tricky as to get the right tension on the inner forestay you need a lot of tension on the aft lead intermediates. This can result in the middle of the mast being pulled to windward when sailing under genoa.

You can't ease the mainsail out as far, and you are likely to get more chafe on the main. Ideally cover them with plastic hose to reduce the chafe.

You can't release the inner forestay in light airs for easy tacking, without slacking the aft lead intermediates as well, otherwise the mast is likely to invert.

But the advantages are one less thing to adjust, and they are completely numpty proof. Not a bad way to go on a rig like yours with a permanent staysail.

I once delivered a boat with this setup that had them lead slightly further aft and onto highfeild levers. That way the angles were better and when running square downwind the leeward one was released, but most of the time both were left set up.

On balance I prefer runners because they give more strength in theory and I like my mast to be perfectly tuned at all times. I also like to drop the inner forestay in light airs and calm seas for quicker tacking.

[GILow]

For the record, I like to remove the staysail stay when not in use because it interferes with the hammock.

[Snowpetrel]

Nice toenails.

I guess the hammock would work to prevent mast inversion, provided it had enough weight it it at all times.

[GILow]

I thought the choice of pacific blue on the toes to match the Bimini was a thoughtful touch.

It’s a double hammock so there might be just a little too much tension from the hammock from time to time.

[billnz]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

This can work well, especially on a solid mast. There are a few compromises that are worth being aware of.

It increases the compression loads on the mast due to a poor angle aft, and generally doesn't give the same inner forestay (staysail stay)tension.

It can make tuning the rig tricky as to get the right tension on the inner forestay you need a lot of tension on the aft lead intermediates. This can result in the middle of the mast being pulled to windward when sailing under genoa.

You can't ease the mainsail out as far, and you are likely to get more chafe on the main. Ideally cover them with plastic hose to reduce the chafe.

You can't release the inner forestay in light airs for easy tacking, without slacking the aft lead intermediates as well, otherwise the mast is likely to invert.

But the advantages are one less thing to adjust, and they are completely numpty proof. Not a bad way to go on a rig like yours with a permanent staysail.

I once delivered a boat with this setup that had them lead slightly further aft and onto highfeild levers. That way the angles were better and when running square downwind the leeward one was released, but most of the time both were left set up.

On balance I prefer runners because they give more strength in theory and I like my mast to be perfectly tuned at all times. I also like to drop the inner forestay in light airs and calm seas for quicker tacking.

I must admit im a cruiser , though if there's another sail on the horizon ?? & going to windward is a swearword on Hiolani

[SailRedemption]

I finally got a picture of our set up, it still needs to be tweaked and tested. We used dyneema and low friction rings. Our stanchions have been removed for rebedding bases and new stanchions.