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Old 21-07-2016, 11:23   #31
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Holly crap Skip !!!! That's a lot of amps . I will search for your other posts and see what you did .

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Old 21-07-2016, 11:33   #32
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

His and Mine are BD80 based, you cannot compare a system that is small and efficient enough to get by with a BD35 to one that needs a BD80 to keep cold, but I am surprised his power consumption is that high, that is higher than mine, by a decent margin.
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Old 21-07-2016, 11:42   #33
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Holly crap Skip !!!! That's a lot of amps . I will search for your other posts and see what you did .

Regards


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25 - 50 amp hours/day I thought was pretty good. Maybe you thought I said amps instead of amp hours?

25-50 amp hours per day is an average of 1-2 amps. For a 9-10 cu ft box I was pretty pleased with that. I have a single 135 Watt solar panel that keeps the fridge going and the batteries topped off for the lights, inverter and power I use working on the boat. I'm not living on board full time at the moment so not using max amount of power.
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Old 21-07-2016, 11:48   #34
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
25 - 50 amp hours/day I thought was pretty good. Maybe you thought I said amps instead of amp hours?

25-50 amp hours per day is an average of 1-2 amps. For a 9-10 cu ft box I was pretty pleased with that. I have a single 135 Watt solar panel that keeps the fridge going and the batteries topped off for the lights, inverter and power I use working on the boat. I'm not living on board full time at the moment so not using max amount of power.
No No I meant the other Skip ,the Flying Pig Skip . LOL

He burning 200 to 225 amp hours a day CRAZY !

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Old 21-07-2016, 11:50   #35
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

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Hi Everyone.

Thought I would put it out there , how many Amp Hours is your 12v DC refrigeration using in any given day (24hrs) on average ?

You can include size of fridge , ambient temperatures, amount and kind of insulation , make of equipment , and what ever else you can think of, if you like .

But Amp Hour usage is the main point.

I will start . I use 28 amp hrs on average.

Ambient temps are 87 during the day and 70 at night

Box is 7.7 square feet ,
5 inches of Polyisocyanurate insulation and 1 inch of polystyrene (blueboard)

Built my own condensing unit using a Danfoss BD35 using thermostatic expansion valve with a rollbond evaporator plate 16" x 32" in size .

Regards

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Holly crap Skip !!!! That's a lot of amps . I will search for your other posts and see what you did .

Regards


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I went back and read your post. 28 amp hours for a 7.7 square (assume you mean cu) ft box with ambient temp of 87 day, 70 night.

I have a 9-10 cu ft box, ambient 95 day, 80 at night. Since I'm not living on board the boat is closed up so interior is well over 100 when I show up midday and open the hatches. The 50 max was when I first installed the fridge and haven't measure recently. Since the solar panel is charging my battery monitor isn't showing how many amp hours I've used since the last visit. Will have to do a test run to get the latest.
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Old 21-07-2016, 11:54   #36
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

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No No I meant the other Skip ,the Flying Pig Skip . LOL

He burning 200 to 225 amp hours a day CRAZY !

Regards
O I C.

Yes SkipG's system sucks major power. Do I recall that he has a large freezer as well as a very large fridge? That could be part of it. He also had major, ongoing problems getting the system to work correctly (see long, previous thread he started on his fridge system) which may still be contributing to his high power draw.
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Old 21-07-2016, 12:03   #37
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
25 - 50 amp hours/day I thought was pretty good. Maybe you thought I said amps instead of amp hours?

25-50 amp hours per day is an average of 1-2 amps. For a 9-10 cu ft box I was pretty pleased with that. I have a single 135 Watt solar panel that keeps the fridge going and the batteries topped off for the lights, inverter and power I use working on the boat. I'm not living on board full time at the moment so not using max amount of power.
I don't dare leave the boat for more than a couple of days, absolute tops, with the reefer running; we have a 740AH bank, and 370W solar and a KISS wind generator. If it's not brilliant and consistently breezy, I'm dead. I do not misunderstand/misuse amps and amphours.

My average, currently (pardon the expression) overnight is 8-9 amps. That's an average. I measured it rigorously for well over two months; nights with wind had enormously better consumption numbers. Here's a couple of examples, with readings of AH down from full, when we go to bed, and again when we get up, on no-wind nights:

8:15PM: -49AH / 6AM: -137AH average 9A
10:15PM: -45AH / 4:25AM (woke and couldn't get back to sleep) -104AH average 10A
9:10PM: -25AH / 6:15AM -107AH average 8A

I'm convinced there is a problem with my system, as various folk, from Rich Boren (Cool Blue/Technautics), Richard Kollmann, Nigel Calder, Bob Williams (SALT in Marathon, frequent presenter on power, batteries, solar, refrigeration and the like at SSCA) and other pros have said that everything other than the refrigeration numbers looks perfect about my system.

But, here we are...

L8R

Skip
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Old 21-07-2016, 12:07   #38
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Well Skip

If all the hardware is working correctly then the only other thing could be the insulation .

You said you encapsulated the foam in epoxy ?

Again those are crazy amps !!!

Regards

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Old 21-07-2016, 12:16   #39
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
O I C.

Yes SkipG's system sucks major power. Do I recall that he has a large freezer as well as a very large fridge? That could be part of it. He also had major, ongoing problems getting the system to work correctly (see long, previous thread he started on his fridge system) which may still be contributing to his high power draw.

No Problem

Looks like the other Skip had major water cooling problems , at least that what I got from what I read .

Just say NO!!! to water cooling . Use a larger air cooled condenser like Technautics Cool Blue , but to do that you have to go to a TXV system with a receiver dryer. Capillary systems have to stay within the design perimeter with the amount of refrigerant in the system to keep it balanced, they are very sensitive to the amount of charge . Most companies use the capillary system because it is cheap and they can hit a price point , but they don't work nearly as well when the temperatures go up in the tropics , and thats when you want it the most . The COOL BLUE system of Rich Boren's is expensive but it is worth every penny.

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Old 21-07-2016, 12:21   #40
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Well Skip

If all the hardware is working correctly then the only other thing could be the insulation .

You said you encapsulated the foam in epoxy ?

Again those are crazy amps !!!

Regards

Regards
Yes, to both.

The insulation (4" and 2" extrusions, stairstepped at joints to minimize any possible air intrusion) is already waterproof/hydrophobic; the epoxy was belt-and-suspenders.

To boot, it's got a reflective barrier, with the bright side of aluminum foil on the wood walls, then doorskin air barrier furring strips, before the extrusions.

Delta testing, at Kollmann's suggestion, resulted in numbers statistically insignificant (measure the surface of the three faces I could get to - both long walls and the top - and then measure flat surfaces immediately opposite the same points), leading to a presumption of effective insulation.

The latches DO show a difference, but as they're metal in the wood exterior, they'd be expected to have more conductivity. Measuring around the edges of the doors, other than the latches, showed no difference in temperature...

I have gauges, gas, and a vacuum pump if it came to that. However, when the tech that Frigoboat Info (Rob at Veco) recommended to me (presumed very competent) and I laboriously declared the Frigoboat dead, and then installed this system, I assume that he did the very best the equipment was capable of doing. I certainly, in the time I saw him working (unfortunately, we were gone for the fiddling he did), Clay Hansen of Hansen Marine, I saw nothing to suggest other than total professionalism.

Yet, the ducted-to-the-outside air cooling, in a space never other than ambient air, in late November in St. Augustine, could not make the system work; adding water allowed the system to bring the freezer to temps able to keep ice cream, and he declared it finished.

When it's 40 outside, I can get away with air cooling only. After about 60 degrees, it needs the water assist to keep up...
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Old 21-07-2016, 12:38   #41
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Did you do an Ice melt test? Before I put my evaporator plate in my box I put a bag of Ice in a bucket and set it inside the room temperature box . It took over two days to melt just about 50 hours with the temperature outside the boat averaging in the high 70s .

Im just throwing stuff at you , I wonder if you are getting thermal bridging in your insulation with all that epoxy.

Tell me how big your boxes are again ? I have a 7.7 cubic foot box , just a fridge , freezer is a separate cabinet with its owns system. I have yet to reno that yet and I am not using it .

Do you remember your pressures the last time you had your gauges on ?

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Old 21-07-2016, 12:42   #42
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Now that I am thinking about it , I remember reading about there being issues with "slugging" with the BD80 compressor , something about velocities not being high enough to clear the oil.

Did anyone ever mention that ?
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Old 21-07-2016, 13:12   #43
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Hi Skip,

This is the other Skip. Sorry I sometimes think I'm the only Skip around and I managed to reply to a post that was addressing you instead of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipgundlach View Post
I don't dare leave the boat for more than a couple of days, absolute tops, with the reefer running; we have a 740AH bank, and 370W solar and a KISS wind generator. If it's not brilliant and consistently breezy, I'm dead.

Which is amazing. I have a system not that different from yours, just a good bit less freezer space, and I'm using a fraction of what you use. As I mentioned in another post, a single 135 Watt panel keeps my fridge going in the hottest summer I can recall. That is without full time liveaboard, lights, etc but with all LEDs I think that panel will supply most of my needs, at least until I crank up the AP.


I do not misunderstand/misuse amps and amphours.

That is clear from your previous posts. Apologies for my confusion.

My average, currently (pardon the expression) overnight is 8-9 amps. That's an average. I measured it rigorously for well over two months; nights with wind had enormously better consumption numbers. Here's a couple of examples, with readings of AH down from full, when we go to bed, and again when we get up, on no-wind nights:

8:15PM: -49AH / 6AM: -137AH average 9A
10:15PM: -45AH / 4:25AM (woke and couldn't get back to sleep) -104AH average 10A
9:10PM: -25AH / 6:15AM -107AH average 8A

I'm convinced there is a problem with my system, as various folk, from Rich Boren (Cool Blue/Technautics), Richard Kollmann, Nigel Calder, Bob Williams (SALT in Marathon, frequent presenter on power, batteries, solar, refrigeration and the like at SSCA) and other pros have said that everything other than the refrigeration numbers looks perfect about my system.

I know. I closely followed your long discussion trying to sort out your new system. I'm very aware that I am no refrigeration expert and try to learn from any discussions I see on the subject. Your fridge may go down like the Flying Dutchmen as one of the all time mysteries of the sea.

But, here we are...

L8R

Skip
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Old 21-07-2016, 13:15   #44
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

He has a smaller box, about 10 cu ft. To my 14 cu ft., possibly much better insulation as I have 30 yr old spray in foam factory stuff that is sort of known to have voids, we both have BD80 systems, yet his usage is maybe twice mine, and to be honest I don't think my BD80 can even consume 9 amps, so maybe the old analog amp meter I have is inaccurate? But both the chargers I have indicate about 5 amps when just the fridge and only the fridge is on? One or the other, they done both show 5.

Skip, you sure something else isn't pulling power, some kind of vampire circuit?


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Old 21-07-2016, 13:29   #45
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Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
He has a smaller box, about 10 cu ft. To my 14 cu ft., possibly much better insulation as I have 30 yr old spray in foam factory stuff that is sort of known to have voids, we both have BD80 systems, yet his usage is maybe twice mine, and to be honest I don't think my BD80 can even consume 9 amps, so maybe the old analog amp meter I have is inaccurate? But both the chargers I have indicate about 5 amps when just the fridge and only the fridge is on? One or the other, they done both show 5.

Skip, you sure something else isn't pulling power, some kind of vampire circuit?


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We do have the ghost loads common to most boats - DSC alarm enabling, panel LED breaker indicators, and the like.

When we last came back to the boat after being away, in the dark, it was 1.1A. It was useful to see that because I was able to measure the draw on our computer-type fans - 0.5A at high...

Gotta run, AFK for the rest of the day...
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