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Old 22-02-2011, 09:29   #31
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

The thing about these big and admittedly more power efficient water makers, VS the PS 40-E is this: It only makes sense to keep your tanks 90% full ALL THE TIME, and merely top off the tanks daily. This way you are never staking your life on it.

If you wash dishes in salt water first, (foot pump), and make a quick rinse in fresh, then most couples can get by on 5 gallons per day or so. We get by on less.

This running the smaller watermaker for a few hours each day, just to top off the tanks, will also make the unit last MUCH longer. Ours is 21 years old. They HATE to be stored and not used. Algae grows in the hoses, housings, etc.

Of coarse this doesn't apply if you take long conventional showers. We just use a 2.5 gal black plastic garden sprayer, with dish washing nozzle, (between us). It is solar heated, and plenty of water for both of us. Used in the cockpit footwell, it keeps down below dry and more comfortable. Ours is 15 years old, has 1 moving part, and going on 16 years old now...

Mark
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Old 22-02-2011, 09:30   #32
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

The thing about these big and admittedly more power efficient water makers, VS the PS 40-E is this: It only makes sense to keep your tanks 90% full ALL THE TIME, and merely top off the tanks daily. This way you are never staking your life on it.

If you wash dishes in salt water first, (foot pump), and make a quick rinse in fresh, then most couples can get by on 5 gallons per day or so. We get by on less.

This running the smaller watermaker for a few hours each day, just to top off the tanks, will also make the unit last MUCH longer. Ours is 21 years old. They HATE to be stored and not used. Algae grows in the hoses, housings, etc.

Of coarse this doesn't apply if you take long conventional showers. We just use a 2.5 gal black plastic garden sprayer, with dish washing nozzle, (between us). It is solar heated, and plenty of water for both of us. Used in the cockpit footwell, it keeps down below dry and more comfortable. Ours is 15 years old, has 1 moving part, and going on 16 years old now...

Mark
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Old 22-02-2011, 09:59   #33
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

That was the plan for us: foot pumps, conservation, fresh water rinses and grey fresh water down the Lavac once a day to kill the critters.

We will also have 4 x 50 gallon tanks, along a manifold and a small transfer pump will allow "overproduction" to be stored. The logic is tanks 1 and 2 have watermaker water, tank 3 has rainwater for non-drinking fresh purposes, and tank 4 for any proven and cheap/free "municipal" supplies that we a) trust and b) are cheaper than making it ourselves.

Given our storage capacity, I am having trouble sizing the watermaker. I have the room for a bigger unit, and (likely) the amps to run a smaller one, but there is in fact a case for pushing the smaller unit a little harder in terms of regular, if short-haul, use. Like the case against running a diesel at low RPM just to spin an alternator, small watermakers seem to be "happiest" running a couple of hours every day, due to the "self cleaning" aspect of their use.

Big assumption, of course, is that you aren't anchored in a flippin' sewage swamp.
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Old 22-02-2011, 10:52   #34
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

All good logic! On our little tri, We have three tanks that = only 30 gallons total, and feel fine switching the outgoing manifold from watermaker directly to the selected tank. By breaking it up into three tanks, IF it started spitting out salt water in the middle of topping off a tank, we would have two more NON contaminated tanks. Since we taste the output before shut down, we'd know. (On a passage we carry 30 more gallons in jugs for a safety).

Since I have a spot for it, I may add a bladder bag for rain catchment as well. This would be just for washing water, which is the majority of our use. Good Idea.

BTW, I have been anchored in Mexican harbors where I would not use the watermaker, Nor was the town's plumbed public water up to safe standards. I refuse to buy 5 gallon bottles of pure water at GREAT expense...

I Have a "bacteriastatic" Katadyne filter that is like a ceramic, made of diatomacous earth. (In a portable housing). It makes pure water out of highly contaminated FRESH water. I have garden hose fittings on both sides, and a 2' tail hose on the "in" side of the housing. I dink ashore and fill my jugs with this... BINGO! good water.

The catch 22 is that this filter, (last decades & you just brush it off periodically), is VERY restrictive. The towns with an unsafe water supply, frequently ALSO lack the water pressure required by this filter. (about 30 PSI) Less pressure than this is fairly common, the more third world the area.

NOW... I needed a spare pressure system pump anyway, should the boat's pressure pump crap out. So I took a 1 sq ft piece of 1/2" Starboard, and mounted the extra pressure pump to this, with a strainer on the in side, and small accumulator tank on the out side.

The IN side strainer has a 4' clear hose that I can drop in a jug, and the OUT side pressure tank has a garden hose fitting. Onto this, I can screw the above mentioned Katadyne filter. This small, light, self contained apparatus, is powered by a 6' wire with cigarette lighter plug, that I run in the cabin and plug up..

Now I go ashore, fill my jugs at a "marina" for a small token charge, and dink the nasty, but fresh, water to the boat. Then I use my above portable "pump on a back board", and the filter, to transfer it slowly from the jugs into the tanks. The pump cycles on and off, and each 2.5 gal jug might take 15 minutes to transfer! The filter is THAT restrictive.

The thing is that it is a hands off operation, and I go about something else. When I hear the pump race, I transfer its hose into the next tank.

Some of the neatest places are just like this... You want to stay for months, not much rain, can't run the watermaker, and the land water supply is suspect as well as low pressure. This solves the problem nicely.

Mark
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Old 22-02-2011, 11:02   #35
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

MY APOLOGIES! I see in looking back, that not only did the post at the top of the page come through twice??? But it is mostly a repeat of points I've already made. "The mind is the first thing to go"... M
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Old 22-02-2011, 12:29   #36
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

I live on the North coast of BC. Which has abundant fresh water, but in many 1000's of miles of cruising perhaps only 3 dockside watering options. The adventure of rowing ashore to replenish our tanks from creeks wore thin the first week.

Now I am looking at a water maker, amongst 20 other things to buy for my boat to go farther afield. If I say yes to all I want for my boat and only settle for the best by the time I have bought everything I "need" for my cruise I will be too old to go.

Water maker yes, But having as much water as being able to live like at the dock, means I would have to stay at the dock. I am not Knocking those who can afford the best for their boat and good for you if you can afford it. But me I have to accept that my choices revolve around money, or the lack of it.

So a water maker is a must on my list. But economy is also a must.
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Old 23-02-2011, 10:53   #37
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

My experience with my 160E is that short runs are a bit of a pain. Following Katadyn instructions I do not use the first couple of gallons of output from a run. Then I retain two gallons to flush the unit at the end of the run. so I do a lot of extra run time on a series of small runs than I do on a large run. If I make 50 usable gallons in a 7 day period I must run the unit 1.7 hours per day if done on 7 short runs for a toata run time of 11.9 hours of run time. On one long run I would only run about 7.7 hours. At around 20 amps of draw that extra 4 hours of run time is a lot of extra power.
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Old 23-02-2011, 11:40   #38
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

Bill,
With our little 40-E we just turn it on, with the valve set to the specialized tap in the sink, let it run 20 minutes, and after a "taste test", switch the valve to the tank that we've selected with our product water "out" manifold. After two hours, (or what ever), we just switch it off.

With our water being produced 100% by solar, early each morning is best. This is because the batteries need to be lowest early in the day, to take advantage of the amps that the panels put out. We then have topped off batteries by noon, or shortly thereafter. (With an all day run, this would not be so).

I agree that the "rinse after use with fresh product water" is a pain, but if you use it every day, you can skip it. This, along with the biocide purge, can be omitted, if used daily.

Also, if you use 50 gallons out of a 150 gallon tank before refill, you still have a 100 gallon margin of safety, fine. For those of us with marginal tankage, like us, one should never go below the amount of water required to get you to another supply, should the watermaker do what all machines eventually do, "crap out".

This "topping off daily" for safety reasons, was our reasoning in daily use... and it's easier to just skip the rinse cycle.

BTW... My instructions suggest that if it is not used for 7 days, It should get both the rinse & biocide at the end of its run. (more so if it is really hot) Perhaps these have changed over the years?

Regardless... what ever works for you makes sense, I was just passing on our reasoning for daily use. This is what all of our "small boat" buddies do too.

Mark
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Old 23-02-2011, 16:00   #39
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

You are really making an interesting case...dammit.

This is like AGM vs. lead-acid house batteries...my decision to go lead-acid was so marginal that only my fatigue at weighing the options made me finally decide.

So again, let me get this straight: The idea is that you run a conservative regimen of using R/O water, but you run it every day to "top up" the supply you presumably got at the dock in your home town before you left to sail the seven seas. Running the PUR40E (or 80E, whatever, just "small, lowish-output watermaker of choice") on a daily basis means you are continuously in a full-tanks situation (for us, 200 U.S. gallons or about 3/4 of a tonne).

The logic here is that you needn't flush or back-rinse a watermaker you use daily? This is the bit that's unclear, but I don't mind tailoring my habits to daily use if that makes sense in the long run. Assume I have plenty of amps to play with.
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Old 22-03-2011, 22:20   #40
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry&gerry View Post
Thanks for input on Defender 160E sale
The sale was still on and that's what we just ordered.



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Old 21-08-2011, 16:15   #41
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

Any body interested in a Power Survivor 40E
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Old 21-08-2011, 17:31   #42
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

The problem with the use it,top it off everyday theory is that sometimes you are anchored,or tied in a place not suitable for making water,so maybe more days go by before running again.I always run product water through,after more than 1 day idle.Its a pain but after 3 or 4 days in the tropics,it needs to be pickled.
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Old 22-08-2011, 09:23   #43
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

That's true. In the warm tropics, watermakers can quickly start an aquarium of growth inside if not frequently fresh water flushed. Learning to take care of any watermaker is very important. I make a good living on people that don't read their manuals. There are many systems on a boat that can be learned as you go. Watermakers become headaches when not properly understood and very careful maintenance is not followed from the very begining.
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Old 07-08-2013, 19:13   #44
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

I bought a well used Powersurvivor 35 which served me well for 7 more years. Now I want to buy a new Powersurvivor 40E. The best price I've seen for a new one is around US$3500. Any idea where I can get a better price? I saw it on sale a couple years back for $2500, but no more.

Thanks,

David
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Old 07-08-2013, 19:23   #45
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Re: PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

Just installed a 40 myself. I think you're a much better judge of the 40 or 80, considering you've had the 40's not-too-distant relative installed for a while.

No joy on the low price. They did seem to really jump in price without a lot to show for it. The same unit, now $1K more. I know the newer units have some incremental upgrades but that's a lot of cash.
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