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Old 03-08-2015, 07:38   #211
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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You're not making much sense here. You state that Katadyn is less money than the eco-sistem and is better supported in North America, and then when I ask about that you quote a price in Euros that is over a thousand dollars more than the eco-system.

You can see that your stated Katadyn number of 4290 is a bigger number than the Splash 25's price of 3300, right?

Which would make your earlier statement totally false.
That's confusing me.

As far as shopping online with Amazon, I used that to get a North American price for a Katadyn 80E. When I want specs, I tend to go to the manufacturers web sites. I appreciate good advice by forum members and have been burned by bad advice from forum members. My own decision at the present is not whether to go Katadyn or Eco-system but whether to go with an ac or a dc powered RO. I have all the through hull fittings and space I need as I removed holding tanks and plumbing and replaced two marine heads with composting heads. So I can also mount the feed pump below the waterline. I could mount the entire water maker below the waterline in the space where one 30 gallon holding tank used to be.

I have over 800 watts of solar and a wind generator, and a Honda 2000 and two 80 amp alternators. With more solar planned. Along with the Honda I have a 2000 watt (lets call it honestly 1800) inverter.

So I could fire something up to run Rich's system, either the mains or the little Honda and make a bunch of water in a short time with a lot of noise. Or I could run a 12 volt system for several hours a day, quietly, and make less water in the same time period.

Its better for a watermaker to run more often than less often, correct?

To me, it's obvious that if I were on a genny equipped trawler the Cruise RO system would hands down be the best option for me. On a sailboat that doesn't ordinarily use much ac power when on the hook, well, I'm not so sure.

I grew up watching little windmill driven pumps keep big stock tanks filled. We've got 200 gallons of tankage and could go a day or three with weak solar.

See, I have a lot of things rattling around in my head besides whether or not forum members here are the best source of info on their competition.
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Old 03-08-2015, 08:20   #212
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Here is a deal for you on the power survivor 80E
Katadyn Powersurvivor 80E 12V DC - AS BRAND NEW - this unit was purchased brand new a few months ago, installed but never used. Now for sale due to a change of plans. Complete with loads of new unused spares, all original invoices & paperwork for warranty etc.*£3250.00 inc
From the company its about 3/4 down the page

Ex demo & pre owned watermakers for sale - Sailfish Marine - Watermakers, Marine Generators, Solar Panels and more..
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Old 03-08-2015, 11:20   #213
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
So I could fire something up to run Rich's system, either the mains or the little Honda and make a bunch of water in a short time with a lot of noise. Or I could run a 12 volt system for several hours a day, quietly, and make less water in the same time period.
This doesn't help much with your decision, but the CruiseRO makes much less noise than a Katadyne 80 (those are unusually loud units). It is far quieter than I thought it would be and makes about the same noise as our previous Village Marine DC unit. Actually, it makes a "smoother" noise, which seems less intrusive. Outside of the actual compartment it is in, it is almost unnoticeable (Michele has often asked if I was going to make some water when it is already running).

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Old 03-08-2015, 16:02   #214
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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One question for tellie is the motor and gearbox assembly available for the 35E ?

This is going to sound a bit elusive and it's not meant to be. I'm sure the parts are available but not sure of the financial worth...yet. As you may know Spectra and Katadyn are now the same company. The transition has been moving forward very smoothly. These things can move slowly and there are still a few minor things to hammer out before I feel comfortable getting into the Katadyn product here as I do the Spectra product. But as it stands, by next week at this time I will be meeting with the Katadyn people to finalize a few things. Things should go as planned and by the end of next week I will feel far more comfortable answering any questions anyone may have on the Katadyn line of watermakers. There will be some changes on how the Katadyn line of watermakers will move forward as far as sales, service, advice, and how Halden Marine Service will be handling all of this. So bear with me a week or so more and I will then be ready to field any and all questions. Thanks.

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Old 03-08-2015, 22:38   #215
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

So which is better, the Spectra or Katadyn?


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Old 03-08-2015, 23:52   #216
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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So which is better, the Spectra or Katadyn?


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Spectra based on Amps per gallon...
Katadyne on initial purchase price...

So what's your criteria/definition of "better"?
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:54   #217
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

For what is worth this vis my opinion. I have a Katadyn 80e which I use alot. Its been very reliable for 5 years, very simple unit and dosent take up much space, easy to operate and pickle. Downside is, its reasonably noisy only makes 12-13 litres per hour which for two or more people is minimal and the membranes are ridiculously expensive. On my next boat I would go the spectra or Richs Cruise RO, most likely the Cruise Ro... plenty of water and charge the batteries at the same time.

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Old 04-08-2015, 06:26   #218
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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So which is better, the Spectra or Katadyn?


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As Rich said "So what's your criteria/definition of "better"
and which models are you looking at for comparison?
Katadyn no longer makes the 160e. The power survivor 80e and 40e are always available. The Spectra VT150Deluxe is going to run about 1k more than the 80e depending on who you get it from. But the VT150 is going to make twice the amount of water for the same amount of energy the 80e uses for half the amount of water made. The Spectra is going to be a lot more quiet than the 80e and depending upon installation will probably be imperceptible. Don't discount quiet when shopping a watermaker, as the 80e will have to run twice as long as the Spectra to produce the same amount of water. Some people put a lot of importance to peace and quiet on their boats. Personally the 40e is for the most minimalistic of boats.
It's not always about who makes the best watermaker or who offers the best price. Only considering these two criteria can many times get people into a watermaker that doesn't always fit their wants and needs nor does it usually match their boats capabilities.
Don't discount service to save a few dollars either. When you are in Bora Bora and need help, calling Amazon isn't going to produce much help.


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Old 04-08-2015, 07:26   #219
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

My definition of "best" would mostly depend on:

Amps/gallon
Weight of unit/gallon
Quality and reliability

Sounds like the Spectra? Thank you for your replies!


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Old 14-08-2015, 07:09   #220
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by Training Wheels View Post
My definition of "best" would mostly depend on:

Amps/gallon
Weight of unit/gallon
Quality and reliability

Sounds like the Spectra? Thank you for your replies!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Certainly for amps/gallon. This comes at a trade off relative to $/gallon though.

Don't know weights off the top of my head, but you can look that up. Keep in mind whether the system includes or not a good array of pre-filters etc. For example, my Spectra Catalina 300 came with housings for charcoal filter, 50u prefilter, 20u prefilter, 5u prefilter, and an accumulator tank. These all add space and weight, but lots of prefiltration is good. What's included varies by make/model (even within the Spectra line). Regardless, be sure you plan for robust prefiltration, it helps protect the system and multistage filtration is less prone to clogging than for example a single 5u filter.

Spectra is a good quality product. The core system (feed pump, clarkson pump, membranes...) is very reliable. The most likely problem areas are around the extensive automation. However, a feature I really like about the Spectra is that you can also dumb it down by forcing a totally manual run or by deactivating individual alarms (on newer models). IMHO, any smart device (not just water makers) should have a dumb mode, but Spectra is one of the few that does (sure wish my smart phone could just be a damn phone sometimes!). This allows you to work around most automation related issues until you can resolve them. The other likely maintenance item is seals in the Clarkson pump. These die from old age or normal wear and need replacing periodically. They are straight forward to replace. I keep a bag full of various seals in my spares kit. Keep this in mind during your install planning and make it as easy as you can to access the Clarkson pump. And, when all else fails, Spectra tech support is the best I've ever worked with (water maker or not).
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Old 14-08-2015, 07:31   #221
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Certainly for amps/gallon. This comes at a trade off relative to $/gallon though.

Don't know weights off the top of my head, but you can look that up. Keep in mind whether the system includes or not a good array of pre-filters etc. For example, my Spectra Catalina 300 came with housings for charcoal filter, 50u prefilter, 20u prefilter, 5u prefilter, and an accumulator tank. These all add space and weight, but lots of prefiltration is good. What's included varies by make/model (even within the Spectra line). Regardless, be sure you plan for robust prefiltration, it helps protect the system and multistage filtration is less prone to clogging than for example a single 5u filter.

Spectra is a good quality product. The core system (feed pump, clarkson pump, membranes...) is very reliable. The most likely problem areas are around the extensive automation. However, a feature I really like about the Spectra is that you can also dumb it down by forcing a totally manual run or by deactivating individual alarms (on newer models). IMHO, any smart device (not just water makers) should have a dumb mode, but Spectra is one of the few that does (sure wish my smart phone could just be a damn phone sometimes!). This allows you to work around most automation related issues until you can resolve them. The other likely maintenance item is seals in the Clarkson pump. These die from old age or normal wear and need replacing periodically. They are straight forward to replace. I keep a bag full of various seals in my spares kit. Keep this in mind during your install planning and make it as easy as you can to access the Clarkson pump. And, when all else fails, Spectra tech support is the best I've ever worked with (water maker or not).
Totally agree - easy spares and good support and importantly for some cruisers, on a global basis. You are not dependent on a single source - if one office is unable for some reason you have the option to go to another continent.
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Old 14-08-2015, 07:41   #222
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Just to add, on the Clark pump. Though carrying some spares may make sense and a lot depend on the type of cruising you do, coastal vs RTW etc. Remember that this is the heart of the system. The Clark pump is warrantied to the original owner for as long as you own it.


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Old 14-08-2015, 08:22   #223
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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It's not always about who makes the best watermaker or who offers the best price. Only considering these two criteria can many times get people into a watermaker that doesn't always fit their wants and needs
Bingo...
Naturally people always want the best they can afford, but what's often overlooked is that what is "best" may be different for different cruisers. But when people give advice they are most likely basing their opinion on what is best for them, not you, so you have to take all the advice and boil it down to mesh with your boat and budget.

A 120v AC water maker would be a crazy choice for someone with no generator aboard (Diesel or Honda 2000). Just as in my opinion, someone that plans on running a generator aboard their boat 2-3 times a week or even daily going with a 12v DC water maker isn't the best fit.

This "best fit for You vs the advice giver" doesn't just hold true for water makers, we see it all the time here on CF and all around the advice world. A guy asks for the "best" coastal cruiser for Florida and we get 6 pages on what a true blue water boat is and is not. Sure its humorous and fun to read through, but an awful lot of "what's best advice" is given not to educate the guy asking the question, but to justify the choice made by the guy giving the advice.

What's the "best" water maker isn't about power usage per gallon for a guy with near unlimited power, just as "best" in terms of price doesn't matter to some with budgets to match their near unlimited power. Having no electronics to fail on a water maker I look at as a selling feature, but at every boat show I get a few folks that to them "best" means an Allen Bradley touch screen display with full internet connectivity so they can start, stop, and monitor their water maker remotely. Now we know that's insanity, but there is an entire world out there that we may not understand who just gives their captain a blank check and says, get me the "best" water maker money can buy and have it installed in 4 days when I return.

We talk about what the Best are...but a useful discussion data point is what are the WORST...that way you can avoid certain things. Tops of my list for "worst" would be companies that use proprietary membranes that they price like gold bars that you can only get from them. It seems I do a conversion a week for trapped clients with these types of water makers so that they can switch to industry standard size membranes.
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Old 14-08-2015, 16:28   #224
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Just to add, on the Clark pump. Though carrying some spares may make sense and a lot depend on the type of cruising you do, coastal vs RTW etc. Remember that this is the heart of the system. The Clark pump is warrantied to the original owner for as long as you own it.


...
Good point. I had small cracks develop in an end block of my Clarkson pump and number of years ago. It was not effecting operation, but the Spectra tech I talked too said "hmm...that shouldn't happen" and shipped out a new end block to me at no charge.

I'm sure that's factored into the high initial price of a Spectra, but it sure is nice to have that kind of service when you are in BFE.

Also, many of the o-rings in the Clarkson pump can be replaced with standard o-rings that you can get in any place with good supplies. Correct me if I am techincally wrong Tellie, but as a field repair it works.
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Old 14-08-2015, 16:32   #225
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Bingo...
Naturally people always want the best they can afford, but what's often overlooked is that what is "best" may be different for different cruisers. But when people give advice they are most likely basing their opinion on what is best for ...
Yeah, the word "best" is one of my pet peeves. Especially when people ask it with no qualifying criteria.
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