Flushing with fresh water

[jmschmidt]

44’crusingcat has the right idea…lots of flush strokes with clean sea water. Put a piece of toilet paper in the head, station someone on deck near the outflow and pump. Count you strokes until the deck hand yells that the paper is coming out. Then double that number of strokes and post a placard in the head to encourage people to always use that many strokes, or more, to clear the bowl and lines.

[peghall]

damn. looks like I'm re-installing that through hull fitting.

Maybe not, if you can tee the head intake line into the head sink drain line.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

[peghall]

Originally Posted by sailortype

seems to me you might also be killing the 'good bacteria' in the holding tank which is degrading the waste. Hopefully Peggy might comment on that :-)

Not only that, but the chlorine in 2000 flushes is highly destructive to the rubber parts in the toilet and also breaks down hose resistance to odor permeation. Which is why very toilet mfr will warn against ever using any household chemical bowl cleaner in any marine toilet.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

[peghall]

"2000 flushes" is approved for septic tanks which is the land version of a holding tank.
Holding tanks, because oxygen is needed to create the aerobic environment needed to prevent odor out the vent, have more in common with sewage treatment ponds than septic tanks. Septic tanks, otoh, are anaerobic.

But the real issue isn't the tank, it's the difference between household toilets and marine toilets. Domestic toilets don't have any rubber parts in 'em, and sewer pipes are hard pipe, not hoses. So there's not much you can flush down one that can damage it. Marine toilets, both manual and electric, are full of rubber parts, and chemical bowl cleaners are highly destructive to rubber and flexible PVC.

[peghall]

Periodically use a little Clorox, followed by a little vinegar, allowing each to sit for a short while,

You DO know that Clorox is bleach (sodium hypochlorite, a type of chlorine), which isn't good for the toilet or the hoses, but what you may not know is that combining bleach and vinegar creates chlorine gas, which is even more lethal the ammonium chloride gas created by combining bleach and ammonia. So you're committing chemical warfare!

Mixing bleach with acid toilet bowl cleaners is another bad idea because acid bowl cleaners contain hydrochloric acid, which also produces chlorine gas. More chemical warfare.

So forget the bleach...it actually doesn't belong anywhere on a boat. A cupful of undiluted distilled white vinegar flushed all the way through the system, followed by a quart or two of clean fresh water after about 45 minutes every week or two will keep your hoses free of buildup and odors.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

[farotherside]

Originally Posted by peghall

damn. looks like I'm re-installing that through hull fitting.

Maybe not, if you can tee the head intake line into the head sink drain line.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

sadly the sink drain is above the waterline, and the toilet intake is a good seven or eight feet away, hose-wise. it makes more sense to just keep closer tabs on keeping the effluent line flushed through completely, and change out the hose every few years. I appreciate the thought though!

...but now I'm stuck, projects can't proceed until the marine store opens tomorrow and I can buy a new 3/4" through-hull fitting. :/

[GregW1309]

The "T" into the sink drain is a great idea...but I had thoughts of adding a tank to capture the grey water and use that to flush the head. Why shouldn't grey water be used Peg?

[moseriw]

Peggy: Wow thank you, that is a perfect answer. Nothing more to say.

[a64pilot]

The Raritan fresh head isn't all that expensive and works well, in fact I have one sitting on my dock since I replaced it with an electric head

[tkeithlu]

Peggie's solution is ingenious. In the general case, I think preference should be given for any plan that reduces the number of separate underwater seacocks. It can mean longer hose runs, but it's one less opportunity for large amounts of water to get into the boat. Favor should also go to seacocks that stay closed except when you need them, as in keeping the sink drain/head source closed until a need occurs.

[gts1544]

Peggy, While I am not disputing anything that you are saying and am not a chemist, my wife and I have been mixing up a solution of 1 cup of Clorox and 1 cup of vinegar into a gallon of water, well diluted as we mix, and have been keeping it under the sink and using it as an inexpensive kitchen counter wipe for years with no detrimental effects. It is my understanding that neither Clorox, nor vinegar alone is an adequate disinfectant, but that combined they are very effective. Have I been mislead?

Again with the boat toilet, I am talking very small amounts of both, flushing well with water between and waiting five minutes between applications before using the mineral oil lube. Never use a petroleum based oil as it adversely affects the rubber seals in the toilet! George

[sailortype]

"1. Bleach + Vinegar = Toxic Chlorine Gas. While the combination does create a good disinfectant, these two common cleaning agents should never be used at the same time. Why: Adding any weak acid to bleach will release toxic chlorine and chloramine vapors."

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by peghall

..................... The average adult uses the toilet 5x/24 hours, ..........

The average old man uses it that many times overnight!

[peghall]

It is my understanding that neither Clorox, nor vinegar alone is an adequate disinfectant, but that combined they are very effective. Have I been mislead?

Only by those who've convinced you that it's necessary, or even desirable, to disinfect everything in our lives including toilet bowls and plumbing. Why? You aren't going to drink from it or even bathe in it, and the first flush just re "infects" it anyway. You only need to keep the bowl reasonably clean and the plumbing free running. Our national obsession with killing every bacterium is does more harm than good because we need exposure to "germs" to create the antibodies our bodies need to have strong immune systems. So even our kitchen counters don't need "disinfecting," they just need to be clean.

And just because exposure to your toxic mix doesn't immediately cause you experience symptoms of chemical poisoning, that doesn't mean its effects can't be cumulative. It may never occur to you that any respiratory or eye irritation you attribute to spring pollen or air pollution is actually due to exposure to it. Or if you seem to catch every "bug" that's going round, it may be due to weak immune system.

Think about it...

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

[peghall]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The average old man uses it that many times overnight!

And old women!