Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-06-2011, 20:55   #16
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
One concern I have is obviously that the propane will leak into the bilge and at a spark the boat will blow up.
We had a house in the neighborhood blow up. Landlord between tenants was working on the house and forgot that the gas was left on. With a lit cigar he walked back into the the house to remedy the realization with the expected result. This was a narrow city lot but all the windows in the entire house were blown out and from the outside it looked like the roof separated from the frame by about 3 inches and went straight up, then gravity brought it down. It fractured every structural member in the house. The whole house was leveled after it was all inspected. But for a few weeks it was this amazing structure that looked like nothing was holding it up. The landlord was not inspect-able.

Using green canisters below decks is beyond foolish. We have a story at the club where the canister leaked in the cockpit and flowed below only to explode. It wasn't a full blown leak but nerves were rattled a great deal and a few burns were tended to. Even a green canister fully vaporized would blow you to bits.

There is a proper way to use propane aboard and do it safely. Nothing else is very smart.
__________________

__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 21:04   #17
Commercial Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Bern NC
Boat: Searunner 34 Trimaran
Posts: 1,565
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I've used these bottles for years (although not on a boat) and you are correct about the possibilities of them leaking while connected to the stove. But that is usually a fault in the stove design... the bottles themselves are self sealing and can be used, then stored, for years, without leaking.

On a boat I would be concerned about them rusting out before I'd be worried about the valve seal breaking.

So yeah, if you have concerns about leaking, don't leave the bottles connected to the stove....cook your meal, then unscrew the bottle and put it away. Check on them occasionally for rust or leaky seals.
THIS DOES NOT TURN IT 100% OFF! I have used them on numerous grills and as "back up" to the main LP tank on my boats for decades. I quit taking them off of the appliance when I was done, and adopted the habit of just using them up fairly quickly, because they never failed to "eventually" leak out. This was true if I left it on the grill's regulator/valve, OR if I removed it. After being used used once, it had a maximum of 4 or 5 months before it leaked out. If you used it every day, week, or month... you would never notice, because it is a very slow leak.

It has been true on any grill type appliance I put it on or off of, and it has been true for all of the other folks I know who use one half way, and then try to use the rest of the gas, 6 months or a year later.

While the "self seal" when you remove it, is in fact a slow leak, I suspect that the cheap valves on Magna grills and such, also leak slowly. A truly high quality valve and tight connection, would probably solve the problem.

They are still not very safe down below. I've done it, but I knew it wasn't smart.

M.
__________________

__________________
Mark Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 21:46   #18
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
THIS DOES NOT TURN IT 100% OFF! I have used them on numerous grills and as "back up" to the main LP tank on my boats for decades. I quit taking them off of the appliance when I was done, and adopted the habit of just using them up fairly quickly, because they never failed to "eventually" leak out. This was true if I left it on the grill's regulator/valve, OR if I removed it. After being used used once, it had a maximum of 4 or 5 months before it leaked out. If you used it every day, week, or month... you would never notice, because it is a very slow leak.

It has been true on any grill type appliance I put it on or off of, and it has been true for all of the other folks I know who use one half way, and then try to use the rest of the gas, 6 months or a year later.

While the "self seal" when you remove it, is in fact a slow leak, I suspect that the cheap valves on Magna grills and such, also leak slowly. A truly high quality valve and tight connection, would probably solve the problem.

They are still not very safe down below. I've done it, but I knew it wasn't smart.

M.
"using them up fairly quickly"
What did you do? start eating an extra meal a day for the next 3 weeks? c'mon man...

I have a can right now, in my hand, that I put away more than 1.5 years ago.

These things do not develop 'slow leaks'. If the seal breaks, it will leak its entire contents out.... you're just making stuff up.

Look, instead of listening to people blather about how unsafe they are, look at the evidence of real people using them fore many years at a time. Look in the news, check google, look at every single boat related website on the internet. There is no reason to believe that a small canister of propane is any less safe than a larger one.
__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 21:54   #19
Registered User
 
sww914's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Punta De Mita
Boat: Vagabond 39 Hull # 1
Posts: 1,842
Re: Dangers of Propane

If you really wanted to kill yourself I'm pretty sure that using a little green propane bottle inside your boat would not be a good starting point. I'd recommend something more lethal than that. Give me a break, safety nazis. There must be somebody who's smart enough to pull it off without blowing their ass into the ionosphere or suffocating on the gas or CO. If there is one person who can do it, isn't it even possible that there could be two of these amazing humans? Maybe more than two? Wow, maybe even most of the human race is clever and cunning enough to be able to cook breakfast without dying?
__________________
Steve
http://www.landfallvoyages.com
sww914 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 21:59   #20
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: Dangers of Propane

Just to give respect to Pblais' post and others, since I certainly don't take exploding houses and boats as a light hearted subject.
So let me be clear, I'm not saying that these things can't leak, or that they are 100% safe, All I am saying is that they are NO LESS SAFE than a standard propane installation.

You have to be just as diligent about checking canisters as you do about checking for leaks in any other gas hose or tank. BUT, the good thing about canisters is that there is only 2 sources of failure, the self-sealing valve, and the can iteself. In My opinion, those two sources are far less likely to cause a problem than the multiple failure points in a standard propane system.

But like i said, don't believe me, go google it, do the math, etc..
__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 22:05   #21
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
If you really wanted to kill yourself I'm pretty sure that using a little green propane bottle inside your boat would not be a good starting point. I'd recommend something more lethal than that. Give me a break, safety nazis. There must be somebody who's smart enough to pull it off without blowing their ass into the ionosphere or suffocating on the gas or CO. If there is one person who can do it, isn't it even possible that there could be two of these amazing humans? Maybe more than two? Wow, maybe even most of the human race is clever and cunning enough to be able to cook breakfast without dying?
Seriously, it's not rocket surgery
__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 22:27   #22
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Dangers of Propane

i used mine in boat for over 6 yrs and i didnt blow up nor lose any propane into my bilges nor have slow nor fast leaks
they last 4 1/2 hours of cooking time and they are as safe as is the individual using them.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 22:34   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Re: Dangers of Propane

Maybe store the entire unit outside when not in use....
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 22:58   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
If you really wanted to kill yourself I'm pretty sure that using a little green propane bottle inside your boat would not be a good starting point. I'd recommend something more lethal than that. Give me a break, safety nazis. There must be somebody who's smart enough to pull it off without blowing their ass into the ionosphere or suffocating on the gas or CO. If there is one person who can do it, isn't it even possible that there could be two of these amazing humans? Maybe more than two? Wow, maybe even most of the human race is clever and cunning enough to be able to cook breakfast without dying?
Show me a boat that uses disposable propane cylinders, and I'll show you a boat with rusting green cylinders sitting in a compartment forgotten about until they finally rust open and vent gas. It takes more to vindicate something than a few people managing to not kill themselves.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2011, 23:00   #25
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Dangers of Propane

the more ye move propane stuff around and mess with it the more chance you have of hurting yourself and causing failure in equipment. thinkabout that for a bit. hve a special hose made with a regulator on it-- i hae that-- came withmy formosa--seems the previous owner got tired of using a fuel that kept burning his boat-- he had had 5 alcohol stove fires extending into main saloon and dinette... so he began using the propane stove. he had zero incidents with propane, whereas the alcohol got 5 with involvement of boat. ok and i have had zero incidents of propane problems inmy boats... since 1990.
5 incidents in 2 yrs as opposed to zero in how long???? do the math.
do you use gas stoves in your homes?? have you ever?? did you remove it to store in the back yard when not in use??
use common sense here, guys----isnt gonna blow ye to skyrocket hell. ye will live thru breakfast. and lunch.and dinner
and for a long time. just ventilate when cooking. keep a bottle of kids bubble stuff by the stove.
rebel heart--you didnt read my previous posts about mine i used for many years. you cannot judge all boats on the water by one or two you might see somewhere.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2011, 04:17   #26
Registered User
 
Viking Sailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: Fantasia 35 - s/v Feeling Good
Posts: 1,074
Re: Dangers of Propane

A simple way to check and store the little green bombs is to put them in a one gallon slider storage bag. Push out the excess air before sealing the bag. Store and check often until you have confidence that the cylinders are not leaking, then check less often. If the bag balloons out -- their is a leak.

__________________
Viking Sailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2011, 04:32   #27
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,573
Images: 240
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
... It takes more to vindicate something than a few people managing to not kill themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag
... you cannot judge all boats on the water by one or two you might see somewhere
Indeed.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2011, 08:46   #28
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Dangers of Propane

wiking saioor-- the lil green bottles dontleak--- butthey do rust--is good to plac them for storage in bags, yes, butnot for leakage-- protect em from rust and uglies.
bubble stuff will tell ye if your SYSTEM has a leak. that is important.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2011, 09:01   #29
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Dangers of Propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
wiking saioor-- the lil green bottles dontleak--- butthey do rust--is good to plac them for storage in bags, yes, butnot for leakage-- protect em from rust and uglies.
bubble stuff will tell ye if your SYSTEM has a leak. that is important.
I had a rust free, couple of month old green bottle that you could hear leaking as soon as I removed it from my pulpit grill. It was empty in a matter of hours.

John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2011, 09:08   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: Dangers of Propane

IMO, the big issue is not the propane storage but that the camp stove does not have the automatic shutoff valves for when the flame is blown out. If one monitors the stove continually this isn't an issue, but for longer lasting cookery, who does that?

But gosh, I remember using a white gas fueled Coleman stove in my trailer sailor years ago... and here I am today!

Cheers,
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
propane

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dangers Experienced Whilst Anchored svstrider Off Topic Forum 0 01-02-2011 13:18
Dangers of Lightning Strikes Wind_Traveler Health, Safety & Related Gear 9 23-05-2010 13:16
Waterlift Mufflers and Flooding Dangers? SvenG Engines and Propulsion Systems 13 06-01-2010 22:50
Watchkeeping Dangers csiunatc General Sailing Forum 4 09-08-2008 09:27
Dangers in Electronic Charting Pelagic Navigation 59 22-05-2008 08:58



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.