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Old 29-05-2018, 08:57   #1
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Danfoss AEO controller

AEO I believe means automatic energy optimization. I think what that means is that an AEO controller will automatically adjust your compressor speed so that itís output meets demand, which should among other things make it more efficient.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not finding much data on one, and am trying to figure out my fridgeís power consumption.

First how do you identify an AEO controller? My controller part number is 101N0290, itís for a BD80, is it an AEO controller? Seems maybe is the best I can find on the internet.

Second to operate in AEO mode I believe you need to not have a resistor in line with the thermostat? If you have a resistor, does this take it out of AEO mode and make it run at a fixed speed?

Based on power consumption my fridge seems to adjust itself, if everything is at room temp, it will draw up to 15 amps or so until it cools down, once things are cold it only draws about 5 amps or so.
I have a 1.5 k ohm resistor in-line, yes I know for full 4400 RPM it should be a 1.7 k ohm, but assume 1.5 gets me close to full RPM.

Assuming it runs at full RPM consistently, is it normal for the power consumption be reduced by 2/3 once the cold plates are frozen?
I can see how there could be a reduction in power, but to go from 15 to 5 amps makes me think that maybe the compressor is being slowed down.

Do any of the Marine fridge manufacturers use an AEO controller? If not, why not?
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Old 29-05-2018, 13:42   #2
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
AEO I believe means automatic energy optimization. I think what that means is that an AEO controller will automatically adjust your compressor speed so that itís output meets demand, which should among other things make it more efficient.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not finding much data on one, and am trying to figure out my fridgeís power consumption.

First how do you identify an AEO controller? My controller part number is 101N0290, itís for a BD80, is it an AEO controller? Seems maybe is the best I can find on the internet.

Second to operate in AEO mode I believe you need to not have a resistor in line with the thermostat? If you have a resistor, does this take it out of AEO mode and make it run at a fixed speed?

Based on power consumption my fridge seems to adjust itself, if everything is at room temp, it will draw up to 15 amps or so until it cools down, once things are cold it only draws about 5 amps or so.
I have a 1.5 k ohm resistor in-line, yes I know for full 4400 RPM it should be a 1.7 k ohm, but assume 1.5 gets me close to full RPM.

Assuming it runs at full RPM consistently, is it normal for the power consumption be reduced by 2/3 once the cold plates are frozen?
I can see how there could be a reduction in power, but to go from 15 to 5 amps makes me think that maybe the compressor is being slowed down.

Do any of the Marine fridge manufacturers use an AEO controller? If not, why not?

The 101N0290 module is for BD80 compressor running at high speed and is not an AEO module. The 101 N0280 module is designed for the BD80 AEO.
If you would like to know what speed your present 290 module is running compressor at disconnect thermostat wires from module and measure ohms of resistance back through thermostat. A reading of 203 ohms indicates compressor is running at 2500 Rpm. 451 ohm 3100 Rpm. 867 ohms 3800 Rpm and 1700 ohms 4400 Max Rpm.

There are several add on speed controllers that control speed by compressor cycle times. but my favored one is the Danfoss AEO. Isotherms ASU monitors temperature to determine compressor speed. There is a difference in AEOs between the Smaller BD compressors and your BD80. When thermostat starts a BD80 with 101N0280 AEO it will run at 3250 rpm and then speed will be ramped up every 9.4 minutes for 48 minutes reaching 4400 Rpm. Thermostat stops compressor if it had not stopped it earlier. The next time thermostat starts it runs compressor at 300 Rpm less than Rpm where it stopped. This off and on cycling finally reaches energy optimization where each thermostat OFF cycle is extended to 24 minutes. The slower compressor runs the more energy efficient it is.

Because the Btu capacity of evaporator and desired temperature range of evaporator is known correct capillary tubes come with most evaporator. Most manufactures of icebox conversion units are sold with the correct speed resistor attached. In larger boxes and in tropical climates some companies incorporate a speed switch. Other companies have an option for the AEO instead of standard module. Without an amp-hr meter it is difficult to select the correct resistor so if you are cruising from one climate to another you may want the AEO module.
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Old 29-05-2018, 13:49   #3
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
AEO I believe means automatic energy optimization. I think what that means is that an AEO controller will automatically adjust your compressor speed so that it’s output meets demand, which should among other things make it more efficient.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not finding much data on one, and am trying to figure out my fridge’s power consumption.

First how do you identify an AEO controller? My controller part number is 101N0290, it’s for a BD80, is it an AEO controller? Seems maybe is the best I can find on the internet.

Second to operate in AEO mode I believe you need to not have a resistor in line with the thermostat? If you have a resistor, does this take it out of AEO mode and make it run at a fixed speed?

Based on power consumption my fridge seems to adjust itself, if everything is at room temp, it will draw up to 15 amps or so until it cools down, once things are cold it only draws about 5 amps or so.
I have a 1.5 k ohm resistor in-line, yes I know for full 4400 RPM it should be a 1.7 k ohm, but assume 1.5 gets me close to full RPM.

Assuming it runs at full RPM consistently, is it normal for the power consumption be reduced by 2/3 once the cold plates are frozen?
I can see how there could be a reduction in power, but to go from 15 to 5 amps makes me think that maybe the compressor is being slowed down.

Do any of the Marine fridge manufacturers use an AEO controller? If not, why not?
You have a Cool Blue system am I right ? You have a TXV based system they have what I like to call cruise control with out any fancy electronic speed controller . As the evaporator gets near the set point of the Valve which are preset when the system is built , the valve will close off flow of refrigerant. So basically when the plate is warm the bulb opens the valve wide open as it gets closer to the set point it closes , there by slowing flow volume and energy needed. TXVs are great !

The AEO for your BD80 is 101N0340. You don't need it if you system has a TXV as you can see.

Regards John
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Old 29-05-2018, 14:04   #4
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Danfoss AEO controller

The 0290 replaces the 0280 I believe and I think the 0290 has been superseded by another part number.
However look at this, it seems to indicate the the 0290 MAY be an AEO module?Click image for larger version

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However I can find no way to determine if mine is an AEO or not.
Resistor Iím currently running is a 1.5 k ohm, common I believe for the 35 and 50 compressor, I think the 80 is unusual requiring a 1.7 k ohm.

Anyway according to what I can find on Secop data, power consumption is related to RPM and refrigerant temp in the evaporator, this drives COP as well of course.
Nothing I can find can explain my tremendous drop in amperage as the fridge gets close to set point, there is no data to support 60 watts draw at 4400 RPM, or any RPM remotely close to that, yet that is all I am drawing, to include three fans, actually four. I have to tiny ones in the fridge, and one large 120 mm .5 amp Noctua blowing on my compressor just for Insurence, it may not be needed, but likely doesnít hurt and only costs .5 amp.

So with all these fans I pull 6 amps with the 1.5 resistor and I pull only 1 amp less with no resistor, which should be running the compressor at 2500 RPM. So it takes 1 amp to speed the compressor up from 2500 to whatever a 1.5 k ohm resistor gives me speed wise?

Iím not complaining about cooling a 14 cu ft spillover on so little power, just trying to understand how.
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Old 29-05-2018, 14:21   #5
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

Another thing Iím wondering, is once the plates are cooled down close to set point, maybe reducing compressor RPM to match load may be beneficial to power consumption and compressor life?
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Old 29-05-2018, 14:31   #6
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

John, the 340 AEO is used on the BD35 and BD50 and not the BD80.


I googled Secop and they still show the 290 module as AEO for Danfoss engineered BD80 compressor.
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Old 29-05-2018, 14:35   #7
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Danfoss AEO controller

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Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post
I googled Secop and they still show the 290 module as AEO for Danfoss engineered BD80 compressor.

What little I can find says the same, but are all 290 modules AEO or is there a special one that is?
Seems odd if that is the case, Iíd expect a different part number.
However placing a resistor in line with the thermostat takes an AEO module out of AEO mode and it now runs at speed selected by resistance?
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Old 29-05-2018, 15:16   #8
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Another thing Iím wondering, is once the plates are cooled down close to set point, maybe reducing compressor RPM to match load may be beneficial to power consumption and compressor life?
You would not want a cycling plate but one that plate temperature controlled by thermostats wide differential setting. The first 40 minutes ramping up reduces abnormal load on compressor then if eutectic plate is actually efficient compressor will run at 4400 Rpm until thermostat stops compressor. The next time thermostat starts compressor it will run at 4100 Rpm. If this was a conventional evaporator the AEO would function as it was intended to.

There is probably no real energy efficiency to an AEO module on your Holding eutectic plate system. You need to set the most energy efficient speed with the right inline resistor.
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Old 29-05-2018, 15:40   #9
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

Back before 2010, when Danfoss stopped manufacturing compressors and sold that part of their business to Secop, we were using Danfoss compressors and the actual compressors were bullet proof. But like everyone else our problems were always with the Danfoss Motor Driver Module and specially with the BD80. We had many BD80's suddenly pulling 12 to 15 amps, about double what should have been. We had systems evacuated and recharged etc by local service agents but still the same. We eventually flew our technician to several cases and he was also unable to resolve these issues so the offending condensing units were changed for BD50's albeit at higher RPM to match.
(The BD80 is a 3.00 cc and the BD50 is 2.5cc)

With several dud BD80's back in our workshop we were able to replicate the abnormal current draw. We concluded that in some cases the Motor Driver Module was virtually trying to drive the compressor at two different speeds (pulse width) at the one time causing conflict resulting in excessive current draw and compressor heat.
At the time we tried to resolve this with help from the then Danfoss Australia but may have well talked to the garden gnome!

We never used BD80's after that and never saw this situation with the BD50's which we found much more reliable. (We never used BD35's)

For interest, can you remove the speed resistor then check power consumption rate. Now although you will see a high rate for the first minute or so of a cycle, the rate should level out decreasing slightly as the system lowers the cabinet temp. Also check your compressor temperature for any noticeable change as the consumption varies.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems
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Old 29-05-2018, 18:07   #10
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

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Originally Posted by OzePete View Post
For interest, can you remove the speed resistor then check power consumption rate. Now although you will see a high rate for the first minute or so of a cycle, the rate should level out decreasing slightly as the system lowers the cabinet temp. Also check your compressor temperature for any noticeable change as the consumption varies.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems


Full disclosure of what it going on and what has tripped this line of questioning.
There is a fridge optimizer out there that at first glance promises quite a lot of good things.
It has the capability of running at ďnormalĒspeed until a user adjustable set voltage limit is exceeded, it will then run in ďboostĒmode, meaning at a higher compressor RPM, this is less efficient, but you have excess power available due to your panels putting out more power than your bank can accept, so the theory is to kick the compressor into high gear and lower the thermostat set point and take advantage of the excess power when itís available.
Theory being you can quickly Cool your fridge to just above freezing using excess power, and then when the voltage drops indicating the excess power has ended, you both increase the temp set point and decrease the compressor speed to normal.
Sounds great.
However I have ascertained that the high speed setting is actually what my system ran at normally, so you have to leave it at high speed, so there is no kicking it into high speed for when you have excess power, you were already there, then the theory of reducing the temp set point during charging sounds great, except that the system only looks at settings when it first powers on the compressor, so you have to wait until your compressor has cycled off for the new settings to take effect, and worst yet, the settings will remain there even though you have no excess power until the system cools to the next set point and the compressor powers off, rendering that function also pretty much useless on a cold plate system.
A cold plate system by design I believe has very long cycle times, which renders the lower set point during charging sort of ineffective, cause you will still be trying to cool down for hours after the excess power is gone, and the lower setting wonít take effect until the next compressor off cycle, which may be hours after you start to charge your bank.

However even though in my opinion I had decided that at least for me and my overly large cold plate system it has little utility, it has had me scratching my head trying to figure out the power consumption numbers of my system.

My system when started with room temp cold plates pulls quite a lot of power, but right at what Danfoss says it will, about 170 watts or so, but according to Danfoss it should pull this amount of power regardless of the liquid temp of the liquid inside of the cold plates, however my power consumption drops hugely, to 1/3 the power or about 60ish Watts, which is in the neighborhood of a smaller compressors power draw? I understand some drop, but such a drastic drop canít be due solely to refrigerant temp.

I canít explain that, unless the compressor is slowing down, or as John has indicated is the TXV closing down unloading the compressor, so that even at the same RPM, the load is so reduced that the draw is reduced by 2/3ís ?

However if I understand it, even if my controller was AEO, that having a resistor in-line with the thermostat overrides the AEO function, so it must be a function of the TXV ?

Does a TXV throttle so to speak power consumption to that extent? If so shouldnít the compressor RPM In a perfect world also be dropped to match cooling demand?

Would an AEO controller do that, or would the varying demands due to the TXV just confuse an AEO so that it would never be able to accommodate it?
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Old 29-05-2018, 18:10   #11
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

It sounds like just to me that this fridge controller and an AEO module is for a thin plate evaporator and not so much a hold over plate?
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Old 29-05-2018, 18:58   #12
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

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Originally Posted by OzePete View Post
Back before 2010, when Danfoss stopped manufacturing compressors and sold that part of their business to Secop, we were using Danfoss compressors and the actual compressors were bullet proof. But like everyone else our problems were always with the Danfoss Motor Driver Module and specially with the BD80. We had many BD80's suddenly pulling 12 to 15 amps, about double what should have been. We had systems evacuated and recharged etc by local service agents but still the same. We eventually flew our technician to several cases and he was also unable to resolve these issues so the offending condensing units were changed for BD50's albeit at higher RPM to match.
(The BD80 is a 3.00 cc and the BD50 is 2.5cc)

With several dud BD80's back in our workshop we were able to replicate the abnormal current draw. We concluded that in some cases the Motor Driver Module was virtually trying to drive the compressor at two different speeds (pulse width) at the one time causing conflict resulting in excessive current draw and compressor heat.
At the time we tried to resolve this with help from the then Danfoss Australia but may have well talked to the garden gnome!

We never used BD80's after that and never saw this situation with the BD50's which we found much more reliable. (We never used BD35's)

For interest, can you remove the speed resistor then check power consumption rate. Now although you will see a high rate for the first minute or so of a cycle, the rate should level out decreasing slightly as the system lowers the cabinet temp. Also check your compressor temperature for any noticeable change as the consumption varies.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems
Pete, Yes you do not like Danfoss engineering and your web site states Danfoss compressors are no longer available, enough with the silliness. If you have a better more reliable compressor then let us know who manufactures it, so any application engineer can see if he wants to use your system.

I do not recommend the BD80 especially for large eutectic plates because of its limited Low Back Pressure applications and very small low pressure return connection. Just because I would not recommend the BD80 I would also not take the negative approach to some one that has a Danfoss BD80 compressor. My belief is if it is not repairable locally it is extendable and only good for the marine flea markets.
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Old 29-05-2018, 20:17   #13
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

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Pete, Yes you do not like Danfoss engineering and your web site states Danfoss compressors are no longer available, enough with the silliness.
Absolutely correct Richard. While the Danfoss compressor itself was excellent (as previously stated) in my opinion their Motor Driver Module was a disgrace and there are thousands of unhappy users out there who are very ticked off at having to spend $200 to $300 replacing their crappy electronics. And as correctly quoted at our website 'Since 2010 when Danfoss stopped manufacturing their BD range of compressors," Danfoss NO LONGER manufacture the BD range of compressors

If you have a better more reliable compressor then let us know who manufactures it, so any application engineer can see if he wants to use your system.

Having used Danfoss by the pallet load prior to 2010 and other brands since, we actually have experienced other options, not just quoting experience from the one choir book. We trialled several makers eventually joining with a very large manufacturer and the result is a compressor and Motor Driver Module with far greater reliability than we had experienced before. Especially as it couples to Ozefridge control, fail-safe and has 'soft start'.

See link..Soft Start compressor Motor Drive Modules | Ozefridge

Sorry Richard, but the actual compressor origin is commercial and quite frankly none of your business!


I do not recommend the BD80 especially for large eutectic plates because of its limited Low Back Pressure applications and very small low pressure return connection.
Richard, a condensing unit operating on a eutectic plate has a higher back pressure than if it was operating on a cyclic plate, so not sure where you get that idea from!!

Just because I would not recommend the BD80 I would also not take the negative approach to some one that has a Danfoss BD80 compressor. My belief is if it is not repairable locally it is extendable and only good for the marine flea markets. This statement I don't understand, could you please explain?
Cheers OzePete
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Old 29-05-2018, 23:43   #14
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

Holding plates with a TXV dont use auto compressor speed reduction. Why...because you dont want to match the heat uptake rate of the evaporator to the compressor. The point of the holding plate is to run the compressor faster than heat is removed so you can "store BTUs of heat removal" in the plate. The power draw swing you are seeing is the function of the huge two plate system and the TXV regulating the amount of injected refrigerant to maintain a 10- deg superheat from plate inlet to outlet.

The 1500ohm resistor sets the controller/compressor on hifh speed....and there it stays.
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Old 29-05-2018, 23:48   #15
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Re: Danfoss AEO controller

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Another thing Iím wondering, is once the plates are cooled down close to set point, maybe reducing compressor RPM to match load may be beneficial to power consumption and compressor life?
No that's the whole point of a holding plate you pull out more heat than can be absorbed by the plate there by storing the energy inside the plate.
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