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Old 16-07-2015, 13:18   #1
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ICC Certification

Has anyone been requested to produce his/her ICC certification when clearing in any port in the Med and did not have one? I am just curious: a) what are the consequences, b) how strongly and consistently is this requirement enforced, and c) whether national certification (ASA, CYA, etc.) would be considered as an acceptable alternative. If this question has been posted before and I failed to find it, then please accept my apologies. Thanks for your comments.
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Old 16-07-2015, 13:57   #2
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Re: ICC Certification

Technically, you are only required to meet the requirements of your home county. If you are from the USA, that is and isn't a problem as there is no national certificate. Technically, you don't need anything.

But I recall someone saying Croatia requires one anyway.

ASA, Power Squadron, etc... aren't official govt institutions, so they might work if the official doesn't really know what he is looking at.

Where you can get caught is if you want to go into the french canal system. They require a CENVI endorsement. CENVI can only be issued supplemental to an offical license. Since the USA doesn't have an offical license, you can't get an endorsement for it.

There is a way out though. The RYA does the British certification and they have an exemption to issue certifications to US citizens.
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Old 16-07-2015, 14:17   #3
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Re: ICC Certification

I spoke with a charter company owner here in Canada who had booked some folks in Croatia, who were required to have an ICC. I have issued ICCs to folks who needed them in Greece.

This is worth a look.

http://mymoorings.com/images/EO330.pdf
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Old 16-07-2015, 15:52   #4
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Re: ICC Certification

The two of us and our boat are from the USA, do we need an ICC Certificate to sail our own boat in Croatia? I haven't been able to find a school in the U.S. Giving the course, and none of the countries visited so far have asked to see any documentation. I've watched local authorities in Spain and Italy repeatedly bypass our U.S. Flagged boat when doing routine inspections on local boats... especially the charter boats. The coast guard will normally spend an hour checking a charter vessels paperwork and inspecting, but to date, has never stopped at our boat except to slowly circle and wave hello. It happened again today.

Next year, Croatia will be one of our stops.

Ken
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Old 16-07-2015, 16:25   #5
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Re: ICC Certification

14 schools in the US can issue ICC's

https://iytnet.com/index.php?option=...=49&Itemid=275

ASA issues an International Proficiency Certificate is apparently is the equivalent.

International Proficiency Certificate - American Sailing Association
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Old 16-07-2015, 23:32   #6
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Re: ICC Certification

I guess my question is the same as the original post. Do we need any kind of certificate in Croatia to sail our own boat? We won't be chartering a bare boat.
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Old 17-07-2015, 00:30   #7
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Re: ICC Certification

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I spoke with a charter company owner here in Canada who had booked some folks in Croatia, who were required to have an ICC. I have issued ICCs to folks who needed them in Greece.
If you charter a boat you will be most likely sailing a boat that is localy flagged, and thus need to indeed comply with local regulations regarding certificates of competence. However Croatia for example does accept quite a lot of different documents as proof of competence.
See here:
http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/TA...(2)%203_11.pdf


But the question of which regulations you have to comply with when sailing under your own flag (or any flag that doesn't require a licence) in a country that does require licences is something that has been discussed here at length, with persons arguing both sides.
I personally have argued that you don't need a licence to operate a yacht if your flag state doesn't require one, even when you are in waters of a country where this is a local requirement, because of in practice the principle of comity is applied. (or should be).

My experience in the Med is that in practice they accept anything that looks official enough and that allows the inspecting officer to pretend he's inspected you and found you in compliance. Before the ICC became common charter companies would, on request, just "make up" a licence for you...
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Old 17-07-2015, 00:30   #8
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Re: ICC Certification

Answering my own question:


After going to the official Croatian tourism site, it appears that only a skipper yacht proficiency certificate is required in that country if I'm asked. The total cost is 100 euros and it can be obtained in about 20 minutes at most yacht clubs. A very short exam which will be given again at no cost if failed or money refunded.

So... I won't be spending $2000 in the U.S. to obtain an ICC which I don't need to have since I'm not chartering a bare boat, and will instead wait until the highly unlikely event that I'm asked to show a certificate, and will then pay my 100 euros to obtain it locally in Croatia. I think Montenegro has the same policy.

No other EU countries we've visited have asked to see anything other than insurance and documentation papers when renting a slip or mooring. None have ever asked about VAT related paperwork.

Ken
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Old 17-07-2015, 02:03   #9
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Re: ICC Certification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
No other EU countries we've visited have asked to see anything other than insurance and documentation papers when renting a slip or mooring. None have ever asked about VAT related paperwork.
I've chartered in Greece and Croatia for years with nothing but a document from my government stating that since there is no such thing as a Belgian Sailing Licence I cannot be required to have one...

Then a few years ago the Belgian government started out handing boating licences for a nominal fee (don't remember, must have been something like 30 euro...), so now I have a proper Belgian ICC. I also now have a Swiss VHF licence :-)
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Old 17-07-2015, 06:24   #10
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Re: ICC Certification

Croatia does require quite a bit more paperwork than your average EU country. The harbour master in Dubrovnik asked to see captains licence/ICC. My Australian commercial skippers certificate satisfied the requirement. Not the most easy going officials there.
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Old 17-07-2015, 06:39   #11
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Re: ICC Certification

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
14 schools in the US can issue ICC's

https://iytnet.com/index.php?option=...=49&Itemid=275

ASA issues an International Proficiency Certificate is apparently is the equivalent.

International Proficiency Certificate - American Sailing Association
I notice they are careful not to say it's an ICC.

Charter companies may accept it but I see nothing to suggest it is the legal equivilent of an ICC.

I'm betting my power squadron card from 20yrs ago would be just as likely accepted by a poorly informed offical.
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Old 17-07-2015, 22:47   #12
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Re: ICC Certification

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
I notice they are careful not to say it's an ICC.

Charter companies may accept it but I see nothing to suggest it is the legal equivilent of an ICC.

I'm betting my power squadron card from 20yrs ago would be just as likely accepted by a poorly informed offical.
See http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/TA...(2)%203_11.pdf

36 - 40 cover the US.

40. United States
of America
US Sailing
Association
(USSA)
American Sailing
Association
(ASA)

International proficiency certificate
for Yacht Helmsman Navigating in
Mediterraneam Waters (ASA)

competence to operate:
- boats used for private purposes,
- bareboat chartered boats,
- yachts used for private purposes up to 500 GT,
- bareboat chartered yachts up to 500 GT,
without restriction on the area of navigation, under the condition of
holding an appropriate national or foreign radio licence if there is a radiotelephone
VHF station or a GMDSS-VHF station on the boat or yacht
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Old 20-07-2015, 07:19   #13
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Re: ICC Certification

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
See http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/TA...(2)%203_11.pdf

36 - 40 cover the US.

40. United States
of America
US Sailing
Association
(USSA)
American Sailing
Association
(ASA)

International proficiency certificate
for Yacht Helmsman Navigating in
Mediterraneam Waters (ASA)

competence to operate:
- boats used for private purposes,
- bareboat chartered boats,
- yachts used for private purposes up to 500 GT,
- bareboat chartered yachts up to 500 GT,
without restriction on the area of navigation, under the condition of
holding an appropriate national or foreign radio licence if there is a radiotelephone
VHF station or a GMDSS-VHF station on the boat or yacht
But they are still very careful not to call it an ICC.

If it looks all official, it might work...just like your power squadron card will likely work but it's not an ICC.
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Old 20-07-2015, 17:37   #14
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Re: ICC Certification

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
But they are still very careful not to call it an ICC.

If it looks all official, it might work...just like your power squadron card will likely work but it's not an ICC.
The US is not a signatory to Resolution 40.

Since the Power Squadron does not require a practical, I doubt it would be accepted. A Canadian Pleasure Craft Operator's Card is no acceptable.
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