ICC in Greece - Laws vs Reality

[hoppy]

The Noonsite states that in Greece "The skipper must have an International Certificate of Competence"

http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Gr...ties#Documents

But certainly there are many skippers cruising in Greece without the ICC.

I know there are plenty of Swedes chartering in Greece and there are quite a number of Swedish yachts there, and in all likelihood none of these Swedes have an ICC as Sweden does not issue them.

So what is the reality when you are there?

Do the Greeks just accept any official looking skipper document so they can stamp a few documents and get back to their afternoon nap?

[donradcliffe]

The reality is that they don't ask and the Swedes don't tell.

[boatman61]

The reality is it depends on the officer who clears you through the the Corinth Canal or the bridge at Khalkis....
The Corinth we cleared in 10mins as he glanced through eveything fast and did not question my word we were insured....
At Khalis it took over 2hrs... and he questioned every document and insisted I should be carrying original documentation for the boat... Insurance, Bill of Sale, Registration etc etc.... he did not give up haranguing till I said if he did not clear me through I'd just reverse course and reach Turkey by going back and rounding the Southern tip of Evia...
He then stated I should be careful.. if I was stopped by a patrol boat I'd be in big trouble...
During the trip through Greece there were repeated VHF broadcasts about Coalition Forces seizing/sinking vessels non-compliant with regs/suspicious behavior in the Eastern Med...
So it could happen... but the chances are they'll only stick it to you if your an EU citizen

[donradcliffe]

Sounds like the Khalkis guy was looking for an excuse to shake you down--like the Canadian reported on noonsite Noonsite: Evia Channel - Khalkis Bridge

So what did you show him as a certificate of competence?? I've got a US 100 ton license, but was never asked for it in 4 seasons in the med. Perhaps its becasue I don't look like a pirate...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Sounds like the Khalkis guy was looking for an excuse to shake you down--like the Canadian reported on noonsite Noonsite: Evia Channel - Khalkis Bridge

So what did you show him as a certificate of competence?? I've got a US 100 ton license, but was never asked for it in 4 seasons in the med. Perhaps its becasue I don't look like a pirate...

My RYA Coastal Skipper/ICC.... and I looked like this at the time....

[Jacques2]

Hello,
We passed the bridge at Khalkis last may and nobody did asked for any competence certificate. I am sailing in the Aegean sea for years and i have never heard anything about this certificate, neither my different boat neighbors (Americans, Germans, English..)... I have friends who were asked for it in Croatia, but never in Greece.. Maybe is it a misunderstanding because of the language and coastguards were asking for another document ?
IMO, It is not the first time a rumor arrives with Noonsite..
Jacques2

[swagman]

Through 2006 / 7 we never once had a Greek official ask to see an ICC, and despite being a UK registered vessel for much of the time we chose to fly the Australian national flag off the transom. Point is no one cares much and you need not worry until they do. But when they do, it matters not if you legally have the docs or fly the right flag or whatever.
What actually matters is what the local official says on the day.
JOHN

[hoppy]

The whole licensing thing is quite funny. The Swedish government likes to regulate and control many things and yet, in Sweden then there is no licence requirement aside from the radio licence for my boat. On the other hand I need a licence to play golf, although playing the ignorant foreigner card gets you on the course

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by swagman

Through 2006 / 7 we never once had a Greek official ask to see an ICC, and despite being a UK registered vessel for much of the time we chose to fly the Australian national flag off the transom. Point is no one cares much and you need not worry until they do. But when they do, it matters not if you legally have the docs or fly the right flag or whatever.
What actually matters is what the local official says on the day.
JOHN

I wonder what reaction I would get flying my "dual nationality" flag

[swagman]

:-)

You'd cause a few to go check their book of flags, for sure. Very good.

JOHN

[simonmd]

The point is, you should have one. Normal day to day, you'll not need it but if there was some kind of dispute and you didn't have one, they'd have a good excuse to make life difficult for you.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by simonmd

The point is, you should have one. Normal day to day, you'll not need it but if there was some kind of dispute and you didn't have one, they'd have a good excuse to make life difficult for you.

How can one have what one cannot legally obtain?

The ICC is currently not enforceable in Greece unless they are happy to empty their waters of sailors from countries that do not issue the ICC. I have a feeling the EU might have some issues with Greece stopping memebers from some EU countries from sailing in their waters.

[Jacques2]

To simonmd :
Maybe is there a difference for motor boats.
In Greece, it is the same as in France : motorboats must have a special permit ; sailboats do not (it doesn't exit, except for professionals on charter boats).

[boatman61]

Personally speaking... having never sailed to Turkey before, I checked all the info I could find on Noonsite... enquired on here (3 answers) and other sites so was expecting all kinds of entry hassles/inspections etc... the reality was I anchored 5 times through Turkey.. once just of a military base in the Canakkaale for two nights after being pushed back from the Marmara by a NE8.... not a peep...
Greece.. which I'd expected to be more laid back than 15yrs ago was tougher... but that was in just the one place.. the rest of the time the most difficulty was finding cash machines.... one place involved a 23k trip inland... the villiage shops did not accept plastic..

[swagman]

Originally Posted by simonmd

The point is, you should have one. Normal day to day, you'll not need it but if there was some kind of dispute and you didn't have one, they'd have a good excuse to make life difficult for you.

Correction on that - the point is you do not need to have one one under maritime law in either Greece or Turkey.

But again back in the real world and despite you not requiring one, go often enough and you will one day meet up with some officious little chappie who insists he wants to see your proof of competence.

It happened to us perhaps the third time we wanted to clear out of Turkey - and the fact we'd cleared in / out at other ports meant nothing to this guy. We had to sail on and exit elsewhere (with no issues and still no ICC).

For that kind of situation alone it is worth getting something in print and ideally under plastic saying you are qualified.

If you can't be bothered or have no facility to get an ICC or similar then I suggest you test yourself, issue yourself with a nicely offical looking document in Swedish. Provided you are not forging a real document, you cannot be in the wrong.

Cheers
JOHN