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Old 29-09-2016, 12:46   #16
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

Many have very similar hull forms to Commercial vessels, say fishing boats for example, and those as you know depending on design regularly go out in weather I wouldn't even consider. Some are very seaworthy, more so than many other boats, in fact that is what drives the design of many.
As a former power boater myself, I can tell you the overwhelming desire in bad weather is to keep the pointy end into the waves, I doubt I'll ever get myself to drag a drogue off of the stern in a Storm, it just seems wrong.


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Old 29-09-2016, 13:39   #17
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

I was once on a trawler that was rolling 20 degrees to port, 30 degrees to starboard every 20 seconds. Most uncomfortable and it made me very nervous. Two thirds of the crew were sick. Four hours later we were anchored in sheltered waters. I question the stability of some of these craft and so should we all.
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Old 29-09-2016, 13:59   #18
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

There's a difference between "Can do it, watch your weather windows" and "seaworthy." I went on the market in 2000 for a seaworthy trawler. I was not happy with what I found under $700,000, largely because hull shapes were compromised to make more interior space (see "full displacement" above), limiting ultimate stability, there were bunches of big flimsy windows (can't call them ports) that would blow out if you broached, and there were bunches of underwater seacocks in places you'd never reach in time if you popped one. I ended up building my own, which I do not recommend, but what I got is damned seaworthy. 44' and 60,000 pounds dry, and ballasted to take an 80 knot wind on the beam. I know bunches of 40' sailboat designs I'd take anywhere, but not very many 40' trawlers.
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:01   #19
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

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Originally Posted by foufou View Post
I was once on a trawler that was rolling 20 degrees to port, 30 degrees to starboard every 20 seconds. Most uncomfortable and it made me very nervous. Two thirds of the crew were sick. Four hours later we were anchored in sheltered waters. I question the stability of some of these craft and so should we all.
Sorry, I was once on a UFO. What is called trawler is painted with a broad brush.
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:18   #20
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

The boat shown is a Thompson Trawler. It is the trawler version of a commercial fishing boat and has a good reputation as a sea boat. It was fished in the Gulf of Mexico, Caribbean and Atlantic Ocean.
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:28   #21
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

With enough fuel, that boat will go most anywhere.
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:29   #22
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

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Looking at your boat the freeboard is one matter the superstructure is another matter and that does concern me. Between a rolling sea and a stiff breeze she is going to be a handful and not very pleasant to those on board. I have been in this business at all levels yet I cannot tell what yard may have built her and is she a cold molded?
What is her draft and are we dealing with a single or twin? She is an aft cabin vessel which is wear most will want to hang our to avoid the rolling and pitching. I harbor misgivings.
Capt. Peter Mickelsen
This one is just a google photo I found, but it's just like a boat being sold locally.

A 1977 Thompson 44' trawler. Twin 140hp Volvo Penta diesels. Draft is 4' minimum.
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Old 29-09-2016, 15:51   #23
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

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Originally Posted by mickelsen View Post
Looking at your boat the freeboard is one matter the superstructure is another matter and that does concern me. Between a rolling sea and a stiff breeze she is going to be a handful and not very pleasant to those on board. I have been in this business at all levels yet I cannot tell what yard may have built her and is she a cold molded?
What is her draft and are we dealing with a single or twin? She is an aft cabin vessel which is wear most will want to hang our to avoid the rolling and pitching. I harbor misgivings.
Capt. Peter Mickelsen
She is obviously a Thompson possibly built by Nelsen who purchased the mold and built them a stones throw from the Desco plant.
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Old 29-09-2016, 17:04   #24
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

Generally speaking, most are okay to take on the kinds of trips which are being discussed. Though in order to do so safely, & with peace of mind, there are some steps to take first.

Get her righting moment tested. And by that I don't mean trust what's listed on the boat's design. As without question she wasn't built exactly to those specifications. And even if she were, heavy items have been added to her, or changed since then. Including adding or shifting around batteries, tankage, substantial structures, etc.

When you're consulting with someone professional on this, also try & get a fix on her roll periods in various circumstances/conditions, as well as other similarly key figures & data which contribute to both her seaworthyness & comfort.

Twin engines would be preferable. To include seperate fuel systems & tanks for each engine. With 2 sets of fuel filters in parallef for each engine. Along with vacuum gauges, & built in bleeder systems.

All of these redundancies being to attempt to ensure that you have both engines operational all of the time. Even if you should take on bad fuel. Such that you can easily maintain control of the vessel in poor weather conditions, or when entering narrow channels & harbor entrances. As if you lose power in any of the above, things can go south, quickly.

You'll want to try & have some redundancy in her steering systems as well. Probably including AP's hooked up directly to the rudders. Not to the steering cables on the bridge or elsewhere, in case of a primary steering failure.
This way you can drive via the AP remote if you're forced to. Where as if they're hooked up to the primary steering system, & that fails, then you've lost a key backup.

Also, set her up with a series drogue, including proper mounting hardware. And everything else needed to easily & effectively use one, needs be.
Plus do some worst case scenario prep as well. And ensure that all of her openings have overbuilt closures, along with some levels of backups to them.

There are more boxes to check off, though these are some of the key ones. With more tips likely to be found via the Dashew's website www.setsail.com Given that they have loads of experience with powered, as well as sailing vessels.
Plus which, there's some excellent info in their books which covers handling power vessels in poor conditions. In addition to how to set up such vessels for successful, stress free trips.
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Old 29-09-2016, 18:14   #25
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

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Originally Posted by wesevans View Post
The boat shown is a Thompson Trawler. It is the trawler version of a commercial fishing boat and has a good reputation as a sea boat. It was fished in the Gulf of Mexico, Caribbean and Atlantic Ocean.
I came very close to buying a Thompson like that one. It was impressively built and those hulls have worked the Gulf of Mexico for years with good reputations among commercial users. I like the engine room air intake being up on the side of the house and there were other details that showed thoughtful design.

Because of the size of the house windows I wouldn't be inclined to do true long distance off shore passages like the N. Atlantic but my Ocean Alexander 42 is likely less capable than the Thompson and I am comfortable going around the Caribbean and GOM. Longest passage if you go all around Caribbean is Isla Mujeres to Key West or Ft Meyers and I have done that several times. 57 hours (+ 3 or- 2) depending on how lucky I get playing the currents. Watch the weather! One time I waited a month and a half before making the jump. Grand Dad said "Patience is a virtue."

a64... Ten knots will blow through the fuel on one of these. If really feeling stingy 6.5 knots will keep the fuel burn below 3 gallons an hour and if no head seas or wind maybe less than 2.5gph. Usually run 7.4 through the water and plan 4gph to be conservative and never used more than 3.5 gph on a passage. Anything above 8 kts (4gph) on my boat will start increasing fuel burn rather steeply.
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Old 29-09-2016, 18:57   #26
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

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We have had our 44' trawler in 10 to 15 foot sea's, Green water over the bow, and 8 to 10 sea's on the mississippi sound. They take the waves good if on the bow, beam sea's are bad. You might have to tack a bit.
===

We have taken our Grand Banks 49 from Florida to the Caribbean twice and have encountered similar conditions a few different times. Fortunately it has never lasted more than a few hours. It is very tough on both the boat and crew.

The big risk is encountering multi day gale force conditions on the open ocean. That will eventually take a toll and increase the probability of encountering a breaking sea capable of rolling the boat, pitch polling or breaching the superstructure. It is not just the height but also the overall shape characteristic that can make a wave dangerous. People who maintain that all you have to do is keep the bow into the waves are making an over simplification of the risks.

I know a person who went trans Atlantic on a very nice Nordhaven 47. He ended up shipping the boat back on a freighter and says he will never do it again.
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Old 30-09-2016, 12:15   #27
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

And what is the intended usage of the original poster? Cross the Gulf once? Ply the shoreline for months at a time Annual crossing? Years in the Bahamas?

Loopers cross the gulf corner just once on their adventure, so they wait for a weather window of several days and usually only after hurricane season, so every conceivable kind of boat is crossing.

The Thompson could certainly be a fine Bahama cruiser, and even go south. But never use it in strong wind, long fetches and wind/waves on the beam. The boat could likely take it, but the crew will not. Likewise, You'd never want to have it in 6ft seas from any direction for more than a few hours. The boat might take it, but the crew will get beaten.

All of the coastal cruiser trawlers are in this same class. I've got 5000 miles on mine, and we just carefully choose our days when going on big water. After learning the hard way!


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Old 30-09-2016, 13:25   #28
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Re: Are trawlers limited to coastal crusing?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
. .. As a former power boater myself, I can tell you the overwhelming desire in bad weather is to keep the pointy end into the waves, I doubt I'll ever get myself to drag a drogue off of the stern in a Storm, it just seems wrong. . . .
Write back to us after trying it!

You will be pleasantly surprised, I would say very pleasantly surprised, at how your Island Packet handles rough weather. That is not the boat all of us would choose, but there can be no question that when the stuff hits the fan, this is a boat which will take care you. Not comparable in any way to the ride of an even much bigger power boat.

You won't like "jogging" into the wind like you would do with a power boat, as the boat will pitch up and get stopped in big waves. Once you've tried that, just turn 'er around and run off. You won't need any drogue in anything less than F9. Just run off with maybe just a scrap of headsail out to keep the boat moving and pointed down wind. You will be opening a beer and relaxing in weather which you would have considered survival weather, in a power boat.

Another thing your IP does superbly well is heaving to. If the weather really goes to you know where, and you don't want to be in the cockpit steering, just heave to, go below, make a pot of tea, and wait for it to pass over.

Can't do that in a power boat!

Getting back to the original topic -- as long as the weather is reasonable, a good trawler will be fine. And a well designed trawler and be gotten through quite bad weather, too, if the skipper knows what to do; it just won't be very comfortable. It is vastly easier and more comfortable in the boat with 40%-odd of its displacement in lead ballast, and with sails giving power and stability. Horses for courses!
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