I bought a stolen dinghy

[Tim R.]

Always very leery of the TT designation. To me it seems to announce to everyone what boat you came from and is now ready for looting while you are on shore.

My dink is state registered in Maine.

[Moonpie]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Sounds like you not only have to make sure the seller has the title etc, but need to check that his ID matches it!

Yeah! Not a bad idea. The guy I bought it from didn't get it titled in his name. So it was still titled in the PO's name.

Update: The PO's PO called me today and told me he was working with the cops to get everything sorted out. No word from the cops today. I'm hoping I'll get a call from my local PD telling me to come get it.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

You caught somebody on a good day, because that is not the law. CG documentation does not mean that you are not also subject to state law--when you are in Florida you are subject to Florida law no matter what state you are from.

This is from the Coast Guard website:

+1

You drive a boat in FL with a motor you are required to have registration. If you're in FL less than 90 days you can present registration from your state of residence (or whatever state you like if you are don't reside anywhere?). After 90 days in FL you are required by FL law to register the boat here with a couple of very specific exceptions; foreign owned vessel and I believe military personnel stationed in FL with permanent residence elsewhere are two.

[waterworldly]

For ArtM and Mr. Kettlewell, a little explaination. In the state of Florida, where I have a mailing address, I am not a resident. In the state of Florida, residency in determined by your voting status, so if you are not registered there, you are not a resident. This does not mean that you cannot receive all of your mail there, have a driver's license there, US register your boat there, and open all of your bank accounts there. It just means that you can't vote there. If you do not remain in any state for more than 90 days, you are not required to register your boat there. This is the way it is. I don't know why this isn't better understood on this forum, a "cruising" forum. Most of us out here moving about are not required to be an official resident of any state. That is the beauty of cruising, the freedom. I don't expect so much paperwork fetish in a forum such as this, but it seems that old habits die hard. Five years and counting without incident, so I guess we have it right.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

For ArtM and Mr. Kettlewell, a little explaination. In the state of Florida, where I have a mailing address, I am not a resident. In the state of Florida, residency in determined by your voting status, so if you are not registered there, you are not a resident. This does not mean that you cannot receive all of your mail there, have a driver's license there, US register your boat there, and open all of your bank accounts there. It just means that you can't vote there. If you do not remain in any state for more than 90 days, you are not required to register your boat there. This is the way it is. I don't know why this isn't better understood on this forum, a "cruising" forum. Most of us out here moving about are not required to be an official resident of any state. That is the beauty of cruising, the freedom. I don't expect so much paperwork fetish in a forum such as this, but it seems that old habits die hard. Five years and counting without incident, so I guess we have it right.

Sounds good. I guess you could present the same argument to one of our Environmental Police. They are the guys who run around our harbors in state owned $75K+ small boats with blue flashing lights to go with their jack boots, badges and guns. OH-- most have the proper attitude to go with the boots, badges and guns!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

For ArtM and Mr. Kettlewell, a little explaination. In the state of Florida, where I have a mailing address, I am not a resident. In the state of Florida, residency in determined by your voting status, so if you are not registered there, you are not a resident. This does not mean that you cannot receive all of your mail there, have a driver's license there, US register your boat there, and open all of your bank accounts there. It just means that you can't vote there. If you do not remain in any state for more than 90 days, you are not required to register your boat there. This is the way it is. I don't know why this isn't better understood on this forum, a "cruising" forum. Most of us out here moving about are not required to be an official resident of any state. That is the beauty of cruising, the freedom. I don't expect so much paperwork fetish in a forum such as this, but it seems that old habits die hard. Five years and counting without incident, so I guess we have it right.

Nothing to do with a paper work fetish or any other kind of fetish. Only a matter of complying with the laws of the state, if for no other reason than to avoid hassles with the local constabulary.

Guess it all depends on how you want to define resident. As far as the state of FL is concerned, they don't care where you vote or even if you vote. You are determined to be a resident for purposes of registration if you reside IE stay here and sleep here every night, in the state of FL for 90 days. If you do, FL law requires you get a FL drivers license, register your car, boat AND dinghy (if it has a motor) in FL.

Of course you are free to not do this but you will also be free to be issued a citation for that pleasure.

When I purchased my last boat I researched this issue quite thoroughly, including calls to several offices of the FL DOR and FWC. Kettlewell already posted a quote from one FL gov website and I can post more if you are still in doubt.

[bobconnie]

Is so much easier to row it or sail your dink ! no registration, no problemo!! I like it that way ! (of course when we are out of country a motor shows up lol)

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

For ArtM and Mr. Kettlewell, a little explaination. In the state of Florida, where I have a mailing address, I am not a resident. In the state of Florida, residency in determined by your voting status, so if you are not registered there, you are not a resident. This does not mean that you cannot receive all of your mail there, have a driver's license there, US register your boat there, and open all of your bank accounts there. It just means that you can't vote there. If you do not remain in any state for more than 90 days, you are not required to register your boat there. This is the way it is. I don't know why this isn't better understood on this forum, a "cruising" forum. Most of us out here moving about are not required to be an official resident of any state. That is the beauty of cruising, the freedom. I don't expect so much paperwork fetish in a forum such as this, but it seems that old habits die hard. Five years and counting without incident, so I guess we have it right.

In the state of Florida, you must sign an affidavit that you are a resident to get a driver's license. Fortunately, it can be renewed by internet at least once, perhaps twice, and is good for 6 years, giving at least 12 years before you have to be back in the state.

The reason you do not have to register a boat in FL is not that you are not a resident, but rather that the boat is not resident in the state for 90 days. It's a little understood fact - even by the DMV's of the states - that registration of a motor vehicle has nothing to do with a person's residency. It seems that boat registration may have a similar requirement.

A major difference, though, is that you cannot drive a car in the US that is not registered in some state. I guess the answer is that you can operate an unregistered boat, as long as it is not in any single state for more than 90 days.

You are not required to be a resident of any state - and in fact, there is no legal standard to do so. It is actually not possible to be a legal resident of a state. Yet, that does not stop insurance company's, DMV's, state universities, and other institutions from asking you to prove that you are resident of a state.

In fact I do understand U.S. residency law. I was asking you to describe how it is that you have managed to get along without claiming residency in any state. The answer is that you do what I do - you claim residency in Florida when it suits your needs, and disclaim it when it does not.

If I ever get to lobby in Washington, this is going to be one of my topics - the availability of federally regulated services for those of us who cannot, or choose not to meet legal standards of state residency. Maybe this already exists - can anyone get a D.C. driver's license? Or do you have to be a "resident"?

[ArtM]

Here is the answer: Proof of Current District of Columbia Residency | dmv

I still fail to understand the legal basis of these laws.

[lorenzo b]

If possible, it is a good idea to have the seller go with you to reregister the boat before you pay him.

[ArtM]

Voter registration does not determine your residency, but residency does determine your voter eligibility - another "wrong choice" for a supposedly advanced nation like the U.S.

Further, you got wrong information. The presence of property in a state is completely unrelated to your residency. The DMV of Virginia (as an example) is similarly confused. This is a matter of law that is grotesquely misapplied, but it is misapplied universally.

[waterworldly]

Originally Posted by ArtM

Voter registration does not determine your residency, but residency does determine your voter eligibility - another "wrong choice" for a supposedly advanced nation like the U.S.

Further, you got wrong information. The presence of property in a state is completely unrelated to your residency. The DMV of Virginia (as an example) is similarly confused. This is a matter of law that is grotesquely misapplied, but it is misapplied universally.

Believe what you want. I did it, through all the government channels. But you probably know more than me.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

Believe what you want. I did it, through all the government channels. But you probably know more than me.

Agreed - there is no "right", only a collection of alternative "wrong" options. Your choice is no more right or wrong than anyone else's, and is working for you.

But you might want to be aware that the knowledge of state employees regarding residency law is very poor. It is reinforced by the fact that the internal procedures of these state departments are in fact contrary to the actual state law.

And as mentioned, your superior knowledge of law will not impress the police officer who is issuing you a citation. <== (learned from firsthand experience)

[waterworldly]

Like I said, boss, you probably know more than me. I'm just the guy who did it, with the head of the Florida Dept of Revenue, not a clerk on the phone. But you know better, I'm sure. By the way, where do YOU live?

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

By the way, where do YOU live?

You would seriously ask me a question like that?

I live nowhere and everywhere my friend.

"Where do you live?" is the most difficult question anyone can ask me. I dread it coming up in casual conversation. I have no sensible answer to what almost anyone would consider a sensible question.

But I would not have expected to get it here.