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Cormorant · 28-03-2011, 11:35

A similar capsize took place in 2002 on Lake Champlain. Big bunch of people up on deck of a Mac26, no water in the tanks, watching fireworks. Apparently everyone moved to one side and over they went. Two kids drowned that night.

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

h20man · 28-03-2011, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormorant

A similar capsize took place in 2002 on Lake Champlain. Big bunch of people up on deck of a Mac26, no water in the tanks, watching fireworks. Apparently everyone moved to one side and over they went. Two kids drowned that night.

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

reading the above linked 2002 story, it turns out that the fatalities were children WITH life vests that got tangled in the boat.....

Arch Stanton · 28-03-2011, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurphny

Why would anyone design such a boat? Why would anyone buy such a boat?

I'll defend the Macgregor 26's.

What other boat can you drop on a trailer and go to the bay for the weekend, take the kids tubing, get some sailing in, motor to shore and hop out for lunch, throw the sails up for a couple more hours, jet across the water to check the crab pots when the wind dies down, and get back on the trailer before it's dark.

They look like a fun toy! And at $23K brand now they're easily affordable.

I will of course acknowledge that it's a compromise, jack of all trades design that doesn't do any one thing very well.

But when I'm sitting on glass with the sails dangling from the mast, scrounging around for a wisp of wind here and there, and a 26x blows past me doing 25kts, I wonder who's having more fun today.

There are four or five of them in Budd Inlet and I'd say they're some of the most actively used boats in the area. I cross paths with one almost every time I go out.

I would guess that 26 / 26x / 26m owners get more FHPDs (Fun Hours per Dollar) than just about anyone else.

If you want to get serious about sailing, or serious about skiing, or serious about fishing, or serious about anything, really, it's not the boat for you. But it you just want to get out there and have fun, without going broke, it seems like a good choice.

h20man · 28-03-2011, 13:22

more info (albeit confused) from different sources.
some claim it is a 26' boat. Others 35'. Some witnesses said that the keel was not down.

Here are some picts of the boat after being taken out of the water by harbor police.

(for some reason I can't embed the image.)

[IMG]http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/640*360/Sailboat-Docked-0328_2.jpg[/IMG]
http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/...ked-0328_2.jpg

link: http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/...ocked-0328.jpg

[IMG]http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/640*360/Sailboat-Docked-0328.jpg[/IMG]

link to 35' reference and video of boat on side.... in water

here it is quoted as "Harbor Police officers were at the 26-foot boat within five minutes after a Navy vessel reported the boat capsized, Elicone said. "

Cormorant · 28-03-2011, 13:34

I'm no expert in these things, but that looks an awful lot like an older MacGregor 25.

markpierce · 28-03-2011, 13:44

The following is consistent with my hypothesis with the barest of facts: the 25-foot boat was overloaded:

A boat that size should hold six people maximum, but with 10 aboard, there would be scant room for everyone to sit down, said Chris Tucker, owner of SailTime Channel Islands in Oxnard.
"With that many people, if four people were told to sit over there and the other people got up, that would be enough instability right there," he said. "I'm amazed they didn't sink right where they all got on. That's just overloading the boat."
The boat was carrying five men, three women and two children, a 10-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy, authorities said. Their names were not immediately released, and it was not immediately clear if they were wearing lifejackets.

Connemara · 28-03-2011, 13:46

The NBC website has a slideshow that give some pix of the boat; it is certainly not a 35-footer, and it could be that it's a old MacGregor. But it probably is a sailboat. I think I see the boom lying on the deck.

Can't seem to cut and paste the images -- damn copyright laws -- but here's the link.

2 Drown in Sailboat Accident | NBC San Diego

Compare this image (from Yachtworld) with the second NBC pic ... oops, can't seem to post that either. Here's the link:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=2325181

[IMG]file:///Users/msmith/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///Users/msmith/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]

There's also an image of the stern that looks very like the fist NBC image.

Connemara

four winds · 28-03-2011, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormorant

I'm no expert in these things, but that looks an awful lot like an older MacGregor 25.

Certainly appears to be an older 25 foot MacGregor. From 1975 to 85 they looked pretty much the same. The newer 26 foot models have a more modern salon window layout.

A google image search brings up a lot of photos that look like that boat.

Plus there is one on the hard a hundred yards from me now that could be that boat. It's raining buckets at the marina right now or I'd take a closer look.

seasick · 28-03-2011, 14:41

It is indeed a M25. All of their ballast is in the lifting keel and were it not down all the way, there very well could be a stability problem but it is highly unusual that it would go completely turtle even with it fully retracted and even in the worst conditions. There may be many that will take issue with that statement but I have owned several similar retractable keel vessels that were very stable even with the keel fully retracted, i.e. Windrose 22 and San Juan 21. I currently own an O'day 25 whose ballast is internal with a light centerboard, these are exceedingly stable.

My guess is that those on the lee side sat frozen as she heeled and that they made no move for the high side as the roll happened very quickly.

My wife's family are the Kettenbergs who built many of the beautiful sailboats that sail on San Diego Harbor and return to their moorings right-side-up. We have had many wonderous evenings sailing in San Diego Harbor.

Again I extend my deepest sympathies and condolences to this family and take my hat off to all of those who devote their time to rescuing those in need... Great work guys!

Bash · 28-03-2011, 14:51

It's important that we all learn from this.

First, if you own a water-ballasted boat, realize that the maximum load it can handle is dependent on whether it's ballasted at the time.

Second, even if you own a full-keel boat with external ballast, every boat has a maximum payload. If your boat is rated for six persons and you load ten people into it, you're running an unacceptable risk of capsize.

If you don't know how many persons your boat can safely handle, regardless of the type of boat or whether you consider it a bluewater boat, find out. If you can't locate the information from the manufacturer, request assistance from the Coast Guard. They will be able to figure out the boat's capacities for you.

Kettlewell · 28-03-2011, 14:56

Lots of speculation in this thread that this was a Macgregor of some sort without much evidence. It seems unlikely that a rental boat in San Diego harbor would have New Jersey numbers on it, like the boat in the photos, so I am skeptical that those photos are of the correct boat. Until we learn more it is hard to speculate on the causes of this accident.

osirissail · 28-03-2011, 14:59

The news reports are all over the place as what the boat actually was. An early report gave this: Harbor Police officers were at the 25-foot boat within five minutes after a Navy vessel reported the boat capsized, Elicone said.

- - 10 people on a 25 ft boat is a little bit of an overload and if they were standing and walking around the topsides it is highly likely that the boat would capsize. Another couple of reports has the boat "sinking" and then recovered along with all the people. So with much of the "news media" which uses "pass down "word of mouth" instead of actual reporters on the scene, the accuracy of the reports vary dramatically as they are written and re-written. From the posted photo of the boat being towed it definitely looks a lot shorter than 35 feet. Not to mention the round bottom and no sign of a keel/skeg/whatever.

Kettlewell · 28-03-2011, 15:04

Unfortunately, when it comes to news about boating things the typical journalist is clueless. It will take someone in the marine industry to straighten this story out. Maybe Latitude 38 will have a report soon.