The GGR race, discussion and news

[GILow]

Peche has gone Chitchester.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by GILow

Peche has gone Chitchester.

Wow! Yes just read that. Sounds like his tiller snapped, and his spare tiller is part of the repairs to his Beaufort windvane. All in about 50 knots of wind. He used the satphone to phone his partner.

VdH also had a bolt break on his Hydrovane.

Bit of a shock. Goes to show just how tough it will be to 'not' use the Satphone. The original GGR didn't have this tempation.

He should be able to get into capetown ok, but its still a long way with steering issues.

[El Pinguino]

'.. to report that the tiller on his Rustler 36 yacht PRB had broken '

Bit confusing.... did his tiller break or was it a windvane problem?...

This sort of problem should only occur in those sort of winds if you are over driving your boat.... or you fall off the top of a big wave... ( bin there .. done both ) but no sign thereabouts of big confused seas....

I think it will be the 'grey men' that stay the course....and a 'grey man' that wins this race ...

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I think it will be the 'grey men' that stay the course....and a 'grey man' that wins this race ...

Brown, not grey.

Coconuts are brown.

[lamadriver]

I’m curious to hear what broke on the hydrovane . Mine steered with a Scrap of headsail for 2days In sustained 50 and 6+ meter seas without flinching

I’ve learned the hard way in those conditions it may be smarter to heave to or to fore reach and wedge my self into
The cabin sole until it gets a little less sport .

Less things tend to
Break .

I like that - “grey man.”

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by GILow

Brown, not grey.

Coconuts are brown.

[emoji106] Even Don thinks Captain Coconut has a good chance.

It sounds like PRB had a fancy telescopic aluminum tiller. A good idea, but a big unbalanced rudder on a boat like that can really load up the tiller.

The likely failure of the Beaufort wkndvane is the tiller line arm sticking up above the pivot. A jury rig would envolve lashing something vertically down the servo rudder to replace the arm, or lashing something horizontal to allow the tiller ropes to lead to the servo pendulum velow the pivot rather than above it. It sounds like the spare bit of tiller is being used on the windvane. To fix one he needs to canabalise the other, or some other part of the ship.

Having spare materials, tools and being able to patch stuff up will be critical as the race goes on.

It will be interesting to hear more. It's got to be pretty tough for Peche, and the relegation due to phone use is bound to be controversial though he called an outside number, whereas Istvan had only called the race committee.

I have to reinforce my windvane. It has a similar welded on tiller arm to the Beaufort. At least that's one good lesson learned so far.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by lamadriver

I’m curious to hear what broke on the hydrovane . Mine steered with a Scrap of headsail for 2days In sustained 50 and 6+ meter seas without flinching

I’ve learned the hard way in those conditions it may be smarter to heave to or to fore reach and wedge my self into
The cabin sole until it gets a little less sport .

Less things tend to
Break .

I like that - “grey man.”

I'm not sure whether the wind was up their bum or from frd of the beam.... downhill should be easy.... stuff shouldn't break. Alloy tiller???? words fail me... seriously... I think there is a good case for having the s/s independent from the ship's rudder... as is the case with your Hydrovane and my Innivane..

The 'grey man'? ... RAN speak... trainers reckon the invisible grey man in the middle of the group... not the 'look at me - look at me' bloke or the dumbo down the back... is the man you want....

[Snowpetrel]

https://www.facebook.com/goldenglobe...5249496395104/

Latest video from Don explains what happened very well. A lot of good insights in vanes and other stuff.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by GILow

Brown, not grey.

Coconuts are brown.

Mine are green.


b.

[barnakiel]

You can't say how much the tiller gets loaded. Except if the boat gets pushed backwards (which is I think not the case discussed).



Otherwise, this is all up to the design. Some are not loaded at all, others are beyond human capacity. Blame the designer.



Our 3.5 ton boat can be driven with two fingers on the tiller, any time. Square this for say a Rustler which is 2 x disp and you still get a very very easy and light tiller.


If the tiller snapped then, it will be mostly in cases where the tiller is not manned and not locked. A wave comes, slaps the blade and the tiller flies side to side hitting anything. The momentum breaks it. Alloy, wood or carbon. Think of Aikido masters.


In our boat, I lock the tiller in the rake, then place a a loop from it to each side. Should the tiller come out of the rake, it still stays more or less put.


One more reason to either avoid tiller driving windvanes or else use quality spectra and blocks on the vane to tiller transmission.



The challenge is that there are far fewer options when you go the independent vane rudder way. And some are known to break quite often (e.g. older Hydrovane models - undersized shaft in wrong metal).


Beyond any doubt anyway, vane choices and being ready to replace anything that WILL break (like tillers or shrouds/stays) will make or brake the attempt.


One can only hope the thing that WILL break will not do so in a bad storm, at 4 a.m. ...


b.

[barnakiel]

Further on the vanes.


Why have these sailors NOT tested their choices?


For now they have only sailed what is the prelude to the real thing.


What sort of sailor goes with an equipment that gives up after ??? 10k miles of easy sailing?


Wrong choices / not enough testing / break in period.


Too many hours 'getting her ready'. Too few days and months actually sailing the boat and correcting the points that are found weak.


b.

[barnakiel]

Further on the weather. They are not running into what someone perceives as 'odd weather'.


This is the regular weather out there at this time.


Mind these are extremely slow boats (by racing standards and by the distances to be covered) and so they can't be at all 3 capes at the best time (Nov-Jan). I think the organiser set it up the way for them to be where it is hardest at the time when it is 'easiest'. But now think about how the fleet will be spread and you get the other face of the story.



Some will pass Good Hope in ? Sept - which is horrible terrible disgusting weather in that area. Think of N Atlantic in March.



Expect carnage and sweat and tears. The reasonable ones to retire to Cape Town. The hard ones to move on, into vast and very turbulent S Indian.



There is then that saying that goes like 'at SO latitudes the weather if it ever changes then it is always for the worse'.


All the above opinions. But educated ones.



Can't tell. Never been.


Cheers,
b.

[lamadriver]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Further on the vanes.


Why have these sailors NOT tested their choices?


For now they have only sailed what is the prelude to the real thing.


What sort of sailor goes with an equipment that gives up after ??? 10k miles of easy sailing?


Wrong choices / not enough testing / break in period.


Too many hours 'getting her ready'. Too few days and months actually sailing the boat and correcting the points that are found weak.


b.

So agree. I’ve been saying this from the get go . But “the dreamers “ and people dropping out is good for PR/media


I took me a long time to learn really /understand and get good at using my windvane. My hydrovane has made me a better sailor as it really taught me about sail trim., helm correction and the aerodynamics/forces behind different points of sail .


That just comes with the miles and breaking stuff

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

They are not running into what someone perceives as 'odd weather'. This is the regular weather out there at this time.

mmm . . . I believe it can be factually argued that this year IS toward the more complex end of the spectrum (even given the time of year). I just went back and looked at this day over the past 5 years and counted the number of rotating systems in the current race area. 2014 - 2, 2015 - 3, 2016 - 2, 2017 -1, 2018 - 3. So, it would appear to be: not super unusual but at the complex end of the typical distribution. And this is harder to quantify, but the systems this year seem to be morphing faster than I remember being typical (usually the winter had bigger more stable systems)..

I spent three winters down there (around Chile - less than a couple other people here; 7 winters if time in s africa, NZ, and tasi are counted as exposure to southern ocean weather) and the winter was typically viewed as having longer settled periods than the summer (but more violent when it was bad than the summer) and it was viewed as the better time to go north up the channels. My memory is of generally somewhat simpler and more enduring patterns than are happening this year. Offshore the southern ocean was always noted for (and lived up to on our passages down there) distinctively deep stable systems which you could see coming from a decent way off.

There is long way yet to go in the race - even Paris got this far (lol) . . . will be interesting to see if JL's experience gets him the win.

Dont know if it has been mentioned . . . the Longue Race is going on at the same time on near the same course. The woman leading (Suzanne) is a good friend of ours and has A TON of experience with her boat. In second place is her husband (in a smaller slower boat) that will be an interesting race lol

[Terje Vigen]

Originally Posted by lamadriver

I’ve been saying this from the get go . But “the dreamers “ ...

I find it very unjust to indicate that Philippe Péché is a "dreamer". He is rather a very competent yachtsman - but obviously (as indicated by Don at GGR) one that was willing to press the limits in order to win the race. By replacing his robust Monitor with a lightweight BeauFort model, he obviously pressed to far...