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Old 27-02-2013, 11:33   #16
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Yeah DeepFrz, you read my mind, I was just thinking that DOJ must have gotten bored with the usual pot stirring. Though it is a valid subject, I'll bet he gets a good chuckle at the bristling on this one.
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Old 27-02-2013, 11:48   #17
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

I just hope some poor Japanese slob that is happy to have work doesn't get scarred for life or blinded by one of those acid-jars. The more I hear of Seashipherds the less I like them.
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Old 27-02-2013, 12:11   #18
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

The "acid" they throw is non toxic, just annoying and ruins the whale meat for sale purposes but the propaganda sounds better if you call it "acid". Lemon juice is an acid too.

So lets say, for instance some "poor slob who is just happy to have a job" gets injured in prison after being arrested for creating and distributing child pornography (morally wrong to most but allowed in some cultures) would you feel the same empathy? This is not hyperbole, I am genuinely interested.
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Old 27-02-2013, 12:51   #19
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

i wonder is the sea sheperd looking for crew i know a couple of french divers looking for a job, i think they even worked on the rainbow warrior at one point in time
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Old 27-02-2013, 12:51   #20
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

An eco-terrorist is still just a terrorist!!!! They all have what they consider a justifiable "cause".
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Old 27-02-2013, 12:55   #21
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Ah, thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding re acid. What exactly are they chucking?

As to the kiddie fiddler getting done up in prison....an interesting diversion indeed. Are you implying moral equivalence between whalehunters and molestors, or ecofascists and molestors? The molestor should be put to death, not housed at public expense while the lawyers get rich. The criminal that takes the law into his own hands and hypocritically attacks a fellow convicted prisoner, should be judged on the basis of his fresh crimes. Eye for eye, life for life.

The ecofascist that forces his ideology on others to the point of endangering life and property not his own, is a criminal, and also a deceived fool. Rubber rooms were invented for people like that. The whalehunter is making a living by killing sea mammals.

If it were a survival issue, I would side with the hunter. The Japanese hunting of whales is cultural, hence I do not support their whalehunting, but I do not believe it is right to make war on them for it. Same goes for the folks on the Faroes and Tristan da Cunha, though they have a much better case for hunting since they have difficulty feeding themselves any other way than by the sea.

Thank you for bringing this fresh argument about whales (thanks Dave) around to the discussion of morals. Are people just animals, or higher than animals? People that treat animals like people, are not far from treating people like animals. I personally don't much like people that wreck this world we are born into, but I hate and oppose those who worship this world and are prepared to sacrifice human lives to their idol.
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Old 27-02-2013, 12:57   #22
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
The "acid" they throw is non toxic, just annoying and ruins the whale meat for sale purposes but the propaganda sounds better if you call it "acid". Lemon juice is an acid too.

So lets say, for instance some "poor slob who is just happy to have a job" gets injured in prison after being arrested for creating and distributing child pornography (morally wrong to most but allowed in some cultures) would you feel the same empathy? This is not hyperbole, I am genuinely interested.
Feel pretty much the same as you. I support the goals of Sea Shepard but think they occasionally send clueless, unskilled kids out into some very unforgiving oceans; basically canon fodder.

Does Sea Shepard use some radical tactics? Yes!

Are they aggressive towards the whalers? Absolutely.

Do they try to prevent injury or harm to any of the people involved, both their own crew and the Japanese crew on the whaling ships? Are far as I can tell, definitely yes.

But, are the Japanese whalers out there killing whales for commercial gain? Certainly are.

I think Sea Shepard is operating under a more aggressive form of civil disobedience and I think they have demonstrated that they (well the rank and file members) are willing to accept the consequences of their actions.

I have watched videos of the whaling ships "harvesting" whales and it made me feel ill. This is from someone who grew up in the south hunting from childhood so not like I'm exactly over sensitive to the sight.

There is too much out of sight, out of mind attitude towards the ocean and it will sooner or later catch up with us. As a sailor and diver I have seen the deterioration of the reefs and oceans in FL and the Bahamas just in my lifetime. Many reefs are bare of all but small, inedible fish. Reefs that I dove in the seventies are completely dead. Fish stocks are being wiped out. Only in the last few years since grouper were protected do I again see large Goliath grouper on the reefs and wrecks in FL.

I think it would be very, very sad if I could not see whales and dolphins when crossing the oceans. If the whaling nations won't stop then I'm all for turning up the heat on them
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:08   #23
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Feel pretty much the same as you. I support the goals of Sea Shepard but think they occasionally send clueless, unskilled kids out into some very unforgiving oceans; basically canon fodder.

Does Sea Shepard use some radical tactics? Yes!

Are they aggressive towards the whalers? Absolutely.

Do they try to prevent injury or harm to any of the people involved, both their own crew and the Japanese crew on the whaling ships? Are far as I can tell, definitely yes.

But, are the Japanese whalers out there killing whales for commercial gain? Certainly are.

I think Sea Shepard is operating under a more aggressive form of civil disobedience and I think they have demonstrated that they (well the rank and file members) are willing to accept the consequences of their actions.

I have watched videos of the whaling ships "harvesting" whales and it made me feel ill. This is from someone who grew up in the south hunting from childhood so not like I'm exactly over sensitive to the sight.

There is too much out of sight, out of mind attitude towards the ocean and it will sooner or later catch up with us. As a sailor and diver I have seen the deterioration of the reefs and oceans in FL and the Bahamas just in my lifetime. Many reefs are bare of all but small, inedible fish. Reefs that I dove in the seventies are completely dead. Fish stocks are being wiped out. Only in the last few years since grouper were protected do I again see large Goliath grouper on the reefs and wrecks in FL.

I think it would be very, very sad if I could not see whales and dolphins when crossing the oceans. If the whaling nations won't stop then I'm all for turning up the heat on them
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:09   #24
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
The ecofascist that forces his ideology on others to the point of endangering life and property not his own, is a criminal, and also a deceived fool. Rubber rooms were invented for people like that. The whalehunter is making a living by killing sea mammals.

If it were a survival issue, I would side with the hunter. The Japanese hunting of whales is cultural, hence I do not support their whalehunting, but I do not believe it is right to make war on them for it. Same goes for the folks on the Faroes and Tristan da Cunha, though they have a much better case for hunting since they have difficulty feeding themselves any other way than by the sea.
The other side of this argument. Does someone have the right to hunt a species to extinction? This planet and the life on it belongs to all of us and I believe we have a right and indeed an obligation to protect it. Just like water rights, if a river runs through your land you do not have the right to dam up that river and take all the water, depriving those downstream of their access to that water.

Since the analogy has been introduced, would you not take the law into your own hands if you saw someone harming a child and the legal authorities were not there to protect that child or would you not act because that would make you a criminal?

We are all sailors here and I think we all have a love of the sea. If the sea and the life in the sea is not protected we will all be the poorer for it.
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:28   #25
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

i think no matter what we do, or don,t do the world will look after itself and for one i dont want the likes of the seasheperd and the people involved with it tryng todo it for us. life will come and go new things will grow
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:35   #26
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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The other side of this argument. Does someone have the right to hunt a species to extinction? This planet and the life on it belongs to all of us and I believe we have a right and indeed an obligation to protect it. Just like water rights, if a river runs through your land you do not have the right to dam up that river and take all the water, depriving those downstream of their access to that water.
No, they do not have that "right".

Quote:
Since the analogy has been introduced, would you not take the law into your own hands if you saw someone harming a child and the legal authorities were not there to protect that child or would you not act because that would make you a criminal?
Red herring argument. If I catch the fiddler in action, I'll do what's necessary to protect the child. If that means a slightshopsoiled kiddie fiddler getting dumped on the courthouse steps, so be it. If it's a deceased ex-fiddler, so be that too. Mind you, I'll likely be the one getting reamed by the legal system, so the most wise action in this sick world would be to see that the fiddler is dealt with and the child returned to the parents, and run and hide somewhere else on the planet where extradition is impossible.

But, whales aren't people, and I wouldnt kill a whalehunter or even throw stuff at him or act irresponsibly at sea. The problem isn't the whalehunting ship, it's the demand for whalemeat in Japan.

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We are all sailors here and I think we all have a love of the sea. If the sea and the life in the sea is not protected we will all be the poorer for it.
There are many more and some far worse things than this going on, and better ways of dealing with it or living with it than turning into little dictators making their own rules.
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:37   #27
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

I give them credit for having the power of their convictions but the bottom line is that they are assauling others who are, arguably, going about a legal business. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

Putting aside any questions of animal cruelty, sentient species, or whether we should all become vegans, there's some real value in asking what the value of any species might be. Not just a role in the ecology, but drugs from rare plants. The question of why sharks never get cancers. (I wish someone would hurry up and study the sharks, so we can get rid of the toothsome things.)

To hunt down an entire species to extinction, or at least to the point where their genetic diversity goes below the tipping point, is just stupid and greedy. Like the politicians and diplomats who refuse to attend to the issue.


"The problem isn't the whalehunting ship, it's the demand for whalemeat in Japan." Ah, take it up a notch. If we, the US, hadn't been bleeding hearts and had taken the spoils of war (Japan) they'd be eating McD's and not whalemeat over there.
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:44   #28
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

There's a segment on a current affairs show here called "You be the judge", which basically runs through some court cases and their outcomes.

From this, and statements such as the one this thread is based on, you'd have to conclude that judges must be amongst the stupidest people on Earth.
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:52   #29
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
.........says US Judge .

"When you ram ships, hurl glass containers of acid, drag metal-reinforced ropes in the water to damage propellers and rudders, launch smoke bombs and flares with hooks; and point high-powered lasers at other ships, you are, without a doubt, a pirate," he said.

"The activities that Cetacean [the Japanese whalers] alleges Sea Shepherd has engaged in are clear instances of violent acts for private ends, the very embodiment of piracy."

BBC News - US court brands whale activists Sea Shepherd 'pirates'



doj did you just start this tread and then put the popcorn on?
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Old 27-02-2013, 14:05   #30
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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"The problem isn't the whalehunting ship, it's the demand for whalemeat in Japan." Ah, take it up a notch. If we, the US, hadn't been bleeding hearts and had taken the spoils of war (Japan) they'd be eating McD's and not whalemeat over there.
Ah but I have read that demand for whale meat in Japan is far below supply so the whole thing makes even less sense.

75% of Japan’s whale meat goes unsold - The Japan Daily Press
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