Nilaya / Berserk Missing

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by sabray

Sorry mis quoted title North to the Night: A Spiritual Odyssey in the Arctic:Amazon:Books
Hope that helps it's a good read. I just do not see where this guy is so offensive. We lost more sailors on the west coast in benign conditions the past weeks. Some how this is perceived as a greater fault.greater harm. I don't see how we are weighing the difference.

perhaps your right. screw the "clean wake" theory. since **** happens, why not make things worse!!! rape, pillage, and plunder should be actively promoted as part of any sailing program. and since the environment is full of junk, turn it into an even bigger junkyard.

[Ocean Girl]

Originally Posted by reed1v

perhaps your right. screw the "clean wake" theory. since **** happens, why not make things worse!!! rape, pillage, and plunder should be actively promoted as part of any sailing program. and since the environment is full of junk, turn it into an even bigger junkyard.

I understand using the smiley face you may of been speaking tongue in cheek, but can you please (for us uninformed) site with credidible sources the circumstances of

Rape:

Pillage:

Plunder:

Have they boarded other vessels? Truly, I'm not keeping up with the news on these guys, in fact, they don't seem to make the news at all.
I understand and applaud your passion for clean wake.
Thanks
Erika

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Ocean Girl

I understand using the smiley face you may of been speaking tongue in cheek, but can you please (for us uninformed) site with credidible sources the circumstances of

Rape:

Pillage:

Plunder:

Have they boarded other vessels? Truly, I'm not keeping up with the news on these guys, in fact, they don't seem to make the news at all.
I understand and applaud your passion for clean wake.
Thanks
Erika

good heavens i would hope they have not r,p & p during their escapades.
however, mr. periscope indicated that since the south pole has garbage dumped on it, why worry? so i took poetic license to underscore an attitude that seems to be gaining currency around the world. even becoming a political standpoint in the upcoming presidential elections.its "lets dump on the environment vs. stop the world, i want to get off." but, by and large, as the eminent philosopher alfred e. newman said: "what me worry?"

[bobconnie]

Well I guess Im Mr Periscope!! Wow just because I brought up the subject of the huge amount of Crap dumped in the area this fella sailed in and all you folks blamed for the dumping!! The great educated folks who have been studying the south pole area for more years then most of ya have been on the earth!! Have made a damn mess of the areas they inhabit down there !! Ive seen it and so have others !! So call me what ya like !! Ya sure have a bunch of worse names for the fella who this threads about !! LOL I guess the only way ya can get your point across is this way !!by name calling !! Thats ok Ive been called worse by much better !! Have it your way this guy is the cause of most everything wrong at sea today !!! LOL Some of you youngsters otta get a life !!

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Well I guess Im Mr Periscope!! Wow just because I brought up the subject of the huge amount of Crap dumped in the area this fella sailed in and all you folks blamed for the dumping!! The great educated folks who have been studying the south pole area for more years then most of ya have been on the earth!! Have made a damn mess of the areas they inhabit down there !! Ive seen it and so have others !! So call me what ya like !! Ya sure have a bunch of worse names for the fella who this threads about !! LOL I guess the only way ya can get your point across is this way !!by name calling !! Thats ok Ive been called worse by much better !! Have it your way this guy is the cause of most everything wrong at sea today !!! LOL Some of you youngsters otta get a life !!

gee, kind of sensitive. we use to call submariners mr. periscope a lot when i was flying out of kiwi country for the good old usaf. and your right, the pole bases use to look like hillbilly country. have not been back there since 1983 so things might have changed a bit. was just making a general observation on your observation from what you observed observing i would imagine through a periscope. not many places a tin can can land at mcM sound.
never heard of a navy guy being concerned about what people called him. dont know how old you are, but back in the early 60s sailors collected names like one collects gray hairs. btw: the r&r times in singapore were much like the bacchanalia scenes out of the pirates of the carib. your old navy guys were the genuine swashbucklers back then. those days are long gone.

[hummingway]

Just a reminder to everyone that this is a hot topic. Please be respectful of others.

[Tonehjul]

I found this forum during a google-search on the Berserk and Jarle Andhøy and have these few comments:

First: Extraordinary results takes extraordinary people. Jarle is extraordinary and we can only hope he leaves the "explorer paradigm" untarnished or even revived for a new generation.

Second: Discovering new land (mentally (i.e. Einstein) or physically (i.e. Nansen) takes a free mind. Goverment regulations doesn't go well with exploreres.

Third: He may be a bordeline psychopath or even ADHD. He may even be responsible for people dying. At least he is there and mocking the regulations and limitations imposed by the relevant goverments. To me, that is a good thing.

I would personally cross those boundaries alone without the responsibility for others.

But.. Does anybody actually know what happened to him and his crew after Chile?

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Tonehjul

I found this forum during a google-search on the Berserk and Jarle Andhøy and have these few comments:

First: Extraordinary results takes extraordinary people. Jarle is extraordinary and we can only hope he leaves the "explorer paradigm" untarnished or even revived for a new generation.

Second: Discovering new land (mentally (i.e. Einstein) or physically (i.e. Nansen) takes a free mind. Goverment regulations doesn't go well with exploreres.

Third: He may be a bordeline psychopath or even ADHD. He may even be responsible for people dying. At least he is there and mocking the regulations and limitations imposed by the relevant goverments. To me, that is a good thing.

I would personally cross those boundaries alone without the responsibility for others.

But.. Does anybody actually know what happened to him and his crew after Chile?

boy are you naive. almost all explorations from the beginning of recorded history have been promoted, financed, or encouraged by governments in one form or another. the successful ones have been well organized. the explorers' club documents this very well in its files. those who have "done it on their own" like the hiscocks were class acts to the utmost. you set a very low standard for yourself. too bad.

[Ocean Girl]

Originally Posted by Tonehjul

I found this forum during a google-search on the Berserk and Jarle Andhøy and have these few comments:

First: Extraordinary results takes extraordinary people. Jarle is extraordinary and we can only hope he leaves the "explorer paradigm" untarnished or even revived for a new generation.

Second: Discovering new land (mentally (i.e. Einstein) or physically (i.e. Nansen) takes a free mind. Goverment regulations doesn't go well with exploreres.

Third: He may be a bordeline psychopath or even ADHD. He may even be responsible for people dying. At least he is there and mocking the regulations and limitations imposed by the relevant goverments. To me, that is a good thing.

I would personally cross those boundaries alone without the responsibility for others.

But.. Does anybody actually know what happened to him and his crew after Chile?

Very well said

[Andrew Troup]

Exploring. Interesting word.

I don't think you can leave an activity untarnished when some people think you've done nothing but tarnish it, and others think you didn't actually engage in it in the first place.

There's been plenty of discussion in this thread about the first interpretation, but I don't recall anything in relation to the second.

I personally think it degrades the concept of "exploring" to apply it to a present-day sailing trip to McMurdo, however inappropriately it's planned and executed.

It's the location of the nearest thing to a city in the bottom third of the Southern Hemisphere, with a summer population of thousands.
It has a seaport, two major airfields to whisk you home if you get into trouble, and the base installations of two nations.

It has many of the 'benefits' of a city: drugs and medical interventions are available, video games are plentiful, and some of the people who work there hardly ever need venture outside. It has a yacht club of sorts. It has at least one ATM machine.

Heck, it even used to have its own nuclear power station.

It's not hard to find, given modern charts and equipment, and if all else fails there's plenty of shipping and planes to follow.

I also don't think it qualifies as "exploring" to attempt to ride quad bikes from the most populated place in Antarctica to the second most populated place (the American base at the South Pole, with a summer population of hundreds), following the route which has been known for some years now as the South Pole Traverse, or the McMurdo – South Pole Highway.

Apart from the regular cargo convoys the route was laid out for, in some recent years there have been literally dozens of private groups travelling this route, using all sorts of transportation options. Those participating have included comparable celebrities with Jarle, such as the decorative young presenter of a popular childrens' TV program, riding a pushbike. Some of them simply walked.

All, except Jarle, have done so with permission and without fanfare, and most of them made it all the way to the South Pole.

And some got REALLY lucky: they found the gift shop at the base (I'm not kidding) had "I reached the South Pole" T-shirts available at half price when they arrived.

It's possibly fun, and arguably relatively harmless – at least the way these others have done it – but ... ... ... exploring?

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

Exploring. Interesting word.

I don't think you can leave an activity untarnished when some people think you've done nothing but tarnish it, and others think you didn't actually engage in it in the first place.

There's been plenty of discussion in this thread about the first interpretation, but I don't recall anything in relation to the second.

I personally think it degrades the concept of "exploring" to apply it to a present-day sailing trip to McMurdo, however inappropriately it's planned and executed.

It's the location of the nearest thing to a city in the bottom third of the Southern Hemisphere, with a summer population of thousands.
It has a seaport, two major airfields to whisk you home if you get into trouble, and the base installations of two nations.

It has many of the 'benefits' of a city: drugs and medical interventions are available, video games are plentiful, and some of the people who work there hardly ever need venture outside. It has a yacht club of sorts. It has at least one ATM machine.

Heck, it even used to have its own nuclear power station.

It's not hard to find, given modern charts and equipment, and if all else fails there's plenty of shipping and planes to follow.

I also don't think it qualifies as "exploring" to attempt to ride quad bikes from the most populated place in Antarctica to the second most populated place (the American base at the South Pole, with a summer population of hundreds), following the route which has been known for some years now as the South Pole Traverse, or the McMurdo – South Pole Highway.

Apart from the regular cargo convoys the route was laid out for, in some recent years there have been literally dozens of private groups travelling this route, using all sorts of transportation options. Those participating have included comparable celebrities with Jarle, such as the decorative young presenter of a popular childrens' TV program, riding a pushbike. Some of them simply walked.

All, except Jarle, have done so with permission and without fanfare, and most of them made it all the way to the South Pole.

And some got REALLY lucky: they found the gift shop at the base (I'm not kidding) had "I reached the South Pole" T-shirts available at half price when they arrived.

It's possibly fun, and arguably relatively harmless – at least the way these others have done it – but ... ... ... exploring?

totally agree with what you have stated. to re-explore but with something that adds value, that is the trick. climbing everest became an anaerobic exercise. going to the south pole a credit card charge. but, to climb everest without oxygen bottles or walk to the south pole solo, now that was adventure that pushed the envelope. some ill informed person mentioned einstein in a previous post. good old albert was always a government employed or funded person. his great ideas at princeton required a cadre of helpers to work out the details, and in some instances forced him to revise his theories.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Tonehjul

I found this forum during a google-search on the Berserk and Jarle Andhøy and have these few comments:
Second: Discovering new land (mentally (i.e. Einstein) or physically (i.e. Nansen) takes a free mind. Goverment regulations doesn't go well with exploreres.
At least he is there and mocking the regulations and limitations imposed by the relevant goverments. To me, that is a good thing.

New land? Mocking the regulations? Bet you don't support "mocking the regulations" in your own back yard. Even criminals require some form of order.

Just because you have the means to get there doesn't give you the right to go. Display the skills & responsibility required to the people that have taken the time & effort to protect the place and then it becomes a reasonable request.

[Astrid]

Even in the Viking age there were rules and regulations--some imposed by societies, others by a ruling Jarl or king. Sure, one was free live an explorers life if one could make a living at it (one needed a reasonable chance of profit to hire a crew); conversely, one was also free to die an explorer's death or kiss the thin lips of the axe if your venture transgressed the rules or whims of your local chieftan, Jarl or King.

[hummingway]

I think what sometimes gets missed by those who see it as some scientists making rules that prevent adventurers from going to the pole, is that those same rules and agreements are what keep the land from being unexploited by nation states.

If you wish to do the NW Passage you have to get the permissions of any of the governments whose waters you are traversing. You are not free to just go there. Meanwhile the arctic is being mined and exploited by the peoples of those nations.

The only reason the same isn't true of the antarctic is that they agreed to do it otherwise.

[erasmos]

the whole length of the post suffers from a lack of real knowledge of whats really going on at the south pole

some people here obviously suffer from the intellectual flaw in assuming that governments want to protect "antarctica" environmentally. that laws currently in place "protects" the planet?

roman law has done nothing else than to harm; a planet on the verge of complete environmental meltdown. sea life today is about 5% of what it was just 200 years ago. fish, whales, dolphins, corals, plankton etc - all dead because of (white-) man.

most indigenous people lived without externalised "law". in harmony. they rarely mutilated any natural environment.

overfishing, nuclear disasters, nuclear- and toxic dumping, oil spills Exxon Valdez size etc all done by private companies operating under "law", having "accidents".
same thing with the US approach to warfare and intelligence operations - its supposedly all "lawful". even when bombs drop over the crooks the military industrial complexes used to support - its "lawful".

this kind of paradigm law is slowly obsolete - IF there is a future