New Anchoring Regs In FL Keys Up For Public Comment.

[dave c]

New anchoring regulations are up for public comment on the Fwc website. Please take a moment and leave a comment. The public must leave comments before July 23. The rules about derelict vessels seem reasonable but the no anchor zones do not! The area east of the Key West mooring field would be off limits and even though it is shallow it gives some protection from northerly blows. To me this is a safety issue for small boaters trying to avoid anchoring in rough water. The promote public access part of their pilot program seems in contradiction to anchoring restrictions. Not sure how I feel about pumpout regs and showing proof of pumpout to authorities. Im all for pumping out but the red tape involved could be problematic. My sailboat was hit by a motor vessel this past spring and damaged and it to the Fwc over a month to get the accident report done. What makes them think they can handle this? Here is the link to their site and please help. Monroe Proposed Ordinance The public comment part is at the bottom of the document, scroll down to the bottom if you do not want to read the whole thing

[rognvald]

Anyone who has spent any time sailing the Florida Keys in the past is aware of the problem of derelict vessels. The people residing in these vessels are not cruisers. The majority of these vessels never leave the anchorage and probably could not under sail or motor power. Many work in nearby restaurants. Many are homeless living in abandoned boats. The majority have always pumped their heads directly into the harbor for years. They contribute little or nothing to the local economies. The anchorage at Dinner Key in Miami was notorious for these derelicts and their watery encampment was the site of numerous crimes, stabbings and even murders. Serious cruisers welcome these new regulations with one exception: maintain a separate area for those cruisers who still wish to anchor rather than pay for a secure mooring. Mandate that they must use the pumpout and allow them the freedom of movement without undue, thoughtless regulations. The last time we went to Boot Key Harbor, we were amazed at the positive change to the water quality. This was only two years after the moorings were established and already the presence of sea turtles, rays and dolphins were evident as well as the clarity of the water. In the past, the harbor water was opaque and it was very common to see human waste floating in and out with the tide. No one pumped out in the past. There is nothing bad, as I read, in these new regulations and serious cruisers should support the effort of the State to maintain a quality, natural marine envirnoment.

[maxingout]

The problem with rules and regulations is that they often throw out the baby with the bath water. Regulations creep far beyond the original intent and makes criminals out of the innocent. Why not just deal with derelict boats directly in a very limited fashion, and don't open the door to regulation creep.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by maxingout

The problem with rules and regulations is that they often throw out the baby with the bath water. Regulations creep far beyond the original intent and makes criminals out of the innocent. Why not just deal with derelict boats directly in a very limited fashion, and don't open the door to regulation creep.

Exactly!

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Anyone who has spent any time sailing the Florida Keys in the past is aware of the problem of derelict vessels. The people residing in these vessels are not cruisers. The majority of these vessels never leave the anchorage and probably could not under sail or motor power. Many work in nearby restaurants. Many are homeless living in abandoned boats. The majority have always pumped their heads directly into the harbor for years. They contribute little or nothing to the local economies. The anchorage at Dinner Key in Miami was notorious for these derelicts and their watery encampment was the site of numerous crimes, stabbings and even murders. Serious cruisers welcome these new regulations with one exception: maintain a separate area for those cruisers who still wish to anchor rather than pay for a secure mooring. Mandate that they must use the pumpout and allow them the freedom of movement without undue, thoughtless regulations. The last time we went to Boot Key Harbor, we were amazed at the positive change to the water quality. This was only two years after the moorings were established and already the presence of sea turtles, rays and dolphins were evident as well as the clarity of the water. In the past, the harbor water was opaque and it was very common to see human waste floating in and out with the tide. No one pumped out in the past. There is nothing bad, as I read, in these new regulations and serious cruisers should support the effort of the State to maintain a quality, natural marine envirnoment.

How do you define a serious cruiser?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by maxingout

The problem with rules and regulations is that they often throw out the baby with the bath water. Regulations creep far beyond the original intent and makes criminals out of the innocent. Why not just deal with derelict boats directly in a very limited fashion, and don't open the door to regulation creep.

Because it's their turf and they're entitled to make new rules to make their enforcement easier if they want. The report about cleaner water and marine animals is very telling to me and makes me think in favor of the rules. I have a friend with a boat moored among other boats, and sometimes the smell of sewage from the water is quite apparent. I would not go in that water unless we had no dinghy and the boat was on fire.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Tellie

How do you define a serious cruiser?

A person who moves their boat from point A to point B with reasonable regularity with the intent of exploration, enjoyment of new and old places and the pride of commanding a well-found vessel with skill and competence. This does not include the terminally harborbound Captain No Go's, the around the bay daysailors and the aforementioned derelict boats/humanoids who turn a beautiful anchorage into a degenerate homeless encampment.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Anyone who has spent any time sailing the Florida Keys in the past is aware of the problem of derelict vessels. The people residing in these vessels are not cruisers. The majority of these vessels never leave the anchorage and probably could not under sail or motor power. Many work in nearby restaurants. Many are homeless living in abandoned boats. The majority have always pumped their heads directly into the harbor for years. They contribute little or nothing to the local economies. The anchorage at Dinner Key in Miami was notorious for these derelicts and their watery encampment was the site of numerous crimes, stabbings and even murders. Serious cruisers welcome these new regulations with one exception: maintain a separate area for those cruisers who still wish to anchor rather than pay for a secure mooring. Mandate that they must use the pumpout and allow them the freedom of movement without undue, thoughtless regulations. The last time we went to Boot Key Harbor, we were amazed at the positive change to the water quality. This was only two years after the moorings were established and already the presence of sea turtles, rays and dolphins were evident as well as the clarity of the water. In the past, the harbor water was opaque and it was very common to see human waste floating in and out with the tide. No one pumped out in the past. There is nothing bad, as I read, in these new regulations and serious cruisers should support the effort of the State to maintain a quality, natural marine envirnoment.

I to would like to know the definition of serious cruiser. There have been laws on the books for years to deal with the derelict boats, just seems like an excuse to me. And as far as the waters of about Boot Key cleaning up, could it be the boaters pumping out or maybe the shoreside homes moving from septic tanks to city sewer. If I remember correctly the study done on the pollution in Boot Key stated the boats contributed 3%, the rest being the septic tanks and run of from the golf course.

[Tellie]

[QUOTE=rognvald;990544]A person who moves their boat from point A to point B with reasonable regularity with the intent of exploration, enjoyment of new and old places and the pride of commanding a well-found vessel with skill and competence. This does not include the terminally harborbound Captain No Go's, the around the bay daysailors and the aforementioned derelict boats/humanoids who turn a beautiful anchorage into a degenerate homeless encampment.[/QUOTE
My point was more that definitions of whom is what is relative. There are some people in Miami who believe all sailboats well founded or not fit your last sentence and make their displeasure known on a constant bases to the local authorities. If we want to create more rules for some we must be willing to accept the rules others would like to place on us.

[rognvald]

[QUOTE=Tellie;990556]

Originally Posted by rognvald

A person who moves their boat from point A to point B with reasonable regularity with the intent of exploration, enjoyment of new and old places and the pride of commanding a well-found vessel with skill and competence. This does not include the terminally harborbound Captain No Go's, the around the bay daysailors and the aforementioned derelict boats/humanoids who turn a beautiful anchorage into a degenerate homeless encampment.[/QUOTE
My point was more that definitions of whom is what is relative. There are some people in Miami who believe all sailboats well founded or not fit your last sentence and make their displeasure known on a constant bases to the local authorities. If we want to create more rules for some we must be willing to accept the rules others would like to place on us.

Tellie, you're correct that there are some who lump us all together and that is a problem. But, having kept a boat in Miami for ten years as our "home base" we were confronted daily by this obvious difference between cruisers and derelicts whether daysailing in Biscayne Bay, cruising the Keys or heading down island into the Caribbean. I am the last person to be a fan of big government but there are times that only codified legislation can correct a serious problem. There was another respondant who mentioned the pollution of Boot Key Harbor was primarily from shoreside homes and that very well could have been a contributory factor but there is no denying the evidence that there was a remarkable transformation in that harbor the moment they threw out the derelicts and required everyone to pump out if they wanted to stay in the harbor. We are walking a delicate and shaky tightrope in re: this anchoring dilemna. I, for one, am in favor of freedom of anchoring but we must not allow the "derelicts" to ruin it for us all.

[DotDun]

AFAICT, the major positive from the new legislation stops the full time live aboard that never moves from locking the Y valve as the authority motors up then claim to not be dumping sewage overboard. If you live on a boat, the sewage is going to go somewhere. If the boat never moves past the 3/9 mile limit, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude you're dumping overboard. Now they have to be caught in the act, the new rule is they'll have to prove they been pumped out.

For the anchor restrictions, 50' from the mooring field in BKH doesn't seem unreasonable. I can't comment on the closed areas east of the KW mooring field and Boca Chica, except that they appear awful shallow on the charts, probably not a place I would be interested in anchoring.

[Tellie]

[QUOTE=rognvald;990571]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Tellie, you're correct that there are some who lump us all together and that is a problem. But, having kept a boat in Miami for ten years as our "home base" we were confronted daily by this obvious difference between cruisers and derelicts whether daysailing in Biscayne Bay, cruising the Keys or heading down island into the Caribbean. I am the last person to be a fan of big government but there are times that only codified legislation can correct a serious problem. There was another respondant who mentioned the pollution of Boot Key Harbor was primarily from shoreside homes and that very well could have been a contributory factor but there is no denying the evidence that there was a remarkable transformation in that harbor the moment they threw out the derelicts and required everyone to pump out if they wanted to stay in the harbor. We are walking a delicate and shaky tightrope in re: this anchoring dilemna. I, for one, am in favor of freedom of anchoring but we must not allow the "derelicts" to ruin it for us all.

Fair enough. Born and rasied here as well I have seen a lot of changes to the water ways. I'm not crazy about derelicts. At one time they had their own areas like down river of Alabama Jacks. Heck I remember when AJs was not much more than a derelict place. When I was boy I lived on Long Key. There were far more dereltics then than now yet the water was far cleaner then. My point being that I also believe the real pollution of the southern waters is more from the unregulated and over building on the coastal lands and throughout the Keys. Not even getting into big sugar. I just want to be a bit leary about the draw bridge mentality that creeps in by those who many times are far more responsible for the waters condition than the derelicts. That's why I agree with Maxingout. We have enough rules and laws that can easily address these boats. If there's no intent on enforcement of those I have no faith of the enforcement of more new ones. I truely understand that the intents and the hearts of those who support this is in the right place. But I'm a slippery slope kind of person and what Ive seen in the past 50plus years in Florida seem to bear out my fears. Cruising to me is largely based on a greater sense of freedom I can not get elsewhere. If I expect to hold on to the little that is left I'm also willing to extend that freedom to others that may not see living on boat the same way as I would.

[PEACETIME]

Thank -you Tellie, I was composing my reply and really couldn't express myself as I wanted. Just that I'm very disappointed with Wallabycreek's statement. My be it was just an intended fuse to degrade this conversation. I am with the group that holds that there are enough rules (laws) to deal with the problems of boats that could be a hazard to navigation. When the law enforcement states they CANNOT remove THOSE vessels with the current laws on the books, then I will be willing to listen to their solutions. More rules/laws are not the answer IMHO.

[Boatguy30]

BTW the city of Marathon installed sewers around the same time the mooring field was developed. The quality of Boot Key harbor water has improved over the last several years and largely (I believe) from the shoreside sewers.

I suppose the areas that the newly overloaded, underfunded treatment plans overflow into aren't doing so well.

[smj]

I guess one also has to define a derelict boat. Many would consider a boat to be a derelict if it wasn't valued or kept up to the same standard as theirs. What people don't realize is the so called derelict boats are owned and lived aboard by those that work in the Keys and that is the only housing that is affordable. The majority of these people are good natured and a welcome addition to the society in the Keys. I think if one doesn't care for what they consider derelict boats in the anchorage they should go somewhere else. The so called "derelict" boats have been in the Keys forever and inconsider them part of the charm.