Belgian customs at it again

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by conachair

Ramsgate sells white. A few others but not many.

As of last year, Royal Harbour Marina in Ramsgate was the only place listed in YBW's guide where you can buy white diesel for boats:

Marinas offering fuel guaranted free from bio-diesel

Note that it's not white marine diesel -- it's road diesel with at least 7% FAME in it (as required by a different EU regulation ), which will kill many boat engines.

Sold in Ramsgate for desperate foreign boaters, who need fuel but don't dare put in British red. Doubt if a single British boater has ever bought any of this stuff.

[Pilou]

Originally Posted by BandB

They've had decades to comply with what everyone else is doing.

Evidence of this is they still drive the wrong side of the road

(Just kidding ! )

[ReneJK]

I am not entirely sure but I doubt its solely a tax issue

I believe its stated previously but its en interpretation of the european law , which belgium interprets as 'no red diesel allowed in EU yachts' , and other countries interpret as 'no red diesel allowed in EU yachts *but* if you can prove you paid tax over it we wont give you a hard time'

the belgians just never went for the *but* parts , they've taken a hard line and are enforcing it the way they see it

there are other 'substances' or 'items' which are allowed in one EY country but not in another EU country, so you leave them at home when you visit countries where those 'substances' or 'items' are not allowed , Belgium is viewing 'red diesel in yachts' in that same light, its just forbidden so you'll be fined if you bring it

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

I believe its stated previously but its en interpretation of the european law , which belgium interprets as 'no red diesel allowed in EU yachts' , and other countries interpret as 'no red diesel allowed in EU yachts *but* if you can prove you paid tax over it we wont give you a hard time'

Does this mean that if the yacht is NOT from the EU, there will be no fine? If so, then that's just fine, unless of course I receive a fine.

[Captain Bill]

I just hope the state of New York doesn't get any ideas from Belgium, they have a law outlawing dyed diesel in pleasure boats. Of course every other state sells dyed diesel to pleasure boats. If they started testing every boat going up and down the east coast they could start racking up some revenue.

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Does this mean that if the yacht is NOT from the EU, there will be no fine? If so, then that's just fine, unless of course I receive a fine.

please contact the belgium customs , I am not the expert here

[hellosailor]

Sounds like some petty fascist taking Brexit revenge.

Easy answer, let's ask Donald to cede Belgium to the North Koreans. That'll end the nonsense and the only remaining problem will be how to control exports of kimchee-filled chocolates.

[Quebramar]

Being one of the few Belgians on CF, I must confess there is a tradition of surrealism in this poor little country of mine. Think of the country as a set of villages ruled by one local tribe each. They feel important by focusing on what matters to them in the moment, with no vision of the future, except on items that can keep them sustainably in power... or get them money quickly.

This is a typical example of "my rules on my land", so ANY yacht found with red traces will be fined, EU or else.

I can only confirm what many are suggesting: stay off the BE harbours... despite the fact that eg Nieuwpoort is a great place and visitors are warmly welcomed by the locals (that includes me!).

I'll send a note to some of our politicians to ask them to get more tolerant (such as NL) but I must say that Brexit is not helping them to be flexible. Brussels as capital of EU is much sensitive to this, and we all see this as a great loss for all.

Not to mention how ashamed I feel, for this and for the stupid ways this country is being (un-) managed.

Didier

[ReneJK]

I dont believe its a Belgium thingie .. its an EU law and the UK has never agreed to implement or follow this law

Brussels takes UK to court over boats using red diesel - BBC News

Now that the UK decided to leave the EU the gloves are coming off on both sides ? If this really is a EU law 'No red diesel in leisure boats' other countries (Netherlands, France , Portugal , Spain etc ) will most likely follow suit as well as the EU no longer has a need to keep the gloves on or find 'acceptable workarounds' as the UK is no longer an EU member

Not sure how this will play out in the future .. and what other memberstates will do

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

If this really is a EU law 'No red diesel in leisure boats' other countries (Netherlands, France , Portugal , Spain etc ) will most likely follow suit as well as the EU no longer has a need to keep the gloves on or find 'acceptable workarounds' as the UK is no longer an EU member

If the law is "no red diesel in leisure boats" that would seem to impact US and Canadian recreational vessels, too.

If enforcement extends to include all of the EU... would seem like a significant disincentive for passage-making type folks from this side of the pond to cruise the Med, Baltic, etc...

Without regard to UK membership in the EU, Brexit, etc.

-Chris

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

If the law is "no red diesel in leisure boats" that would seem to impact US and Canadian recreational vessels, too.

If enforcement extends to include all of the EU... would seem like a significant disincentive for passage-making type folks from this side of the pond to cruise the Med, Baltic, etc...

Without regard to UK membership in the EU, Brexit, etc.

-Chris

Here's the directive (s) it speaks about 'member states' , so I gather its about leisure boats registered in the EU , in an EU memberstate ?

EUR-Lex - l31020 - EN - EUR-Lex
EUR-Lex - 32006D0428 - EN - EUR-Lex

I doubt the EU will enforce rules to non-memberstates , like the united states of america , canada etc ?

but to be sure, you may want to ask Belgian customs office what happens if you sail a US flagged sailing vessel into Nieuwpoort with a full tank of red diesel

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

I understand that the pink tracer which is added to "tax-free" fuel stays in the tank of a boat even after many refills.

It seems the Belgium apparatchiks are saying that no one can ever use a boat that has ever purchased fuel from outside the EU.

[hellosailor]

I see a huge market in taking old winches and fitting them up as diesel fill plates.

"But Monsieur! There is no diesel fill plate, no diesel tank! See for yourself! I have looked all over for one, and cannot find such a thing! It is a perpetual motion machine! Why does no one believe me?!"

I am reminded of a French border guard who refused to stamp my passport. He was so insulted, that he shut his little window, pulled down the windowshade, and pretended not to be there. (At the time, technically, I could not legally enter France without that stamp.) Years later I figured out he was just embarrassed because France was too poor to buy him ink for the stamp pad.

No doubt those Belgians are not salaried, they work entirely on commission, so they MUST try to find red dye in order to earn their daily bread. Does no one have pity for them?

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

Here's the directive (s) it speaks about 'member states' , so I gather its about leisure boats registered in the EU , in an EU memberstate ?

EUR-Lex - l31020 - EN - EUR-Lex
EUR-Lex - 32006D0428 - EN - EUR-Lex

I doubt the EU will enforce rules to non-memberstates , like the united states of america , canada etc ?

but to be sure, you may want to ask Belgian customs office what happens if you sail a US flagged sailing vessel into Nieuwpoort with a full tank of red diesel

This is good information and must have been posted about the same time I posted my previous comment. I guess Britain will just have to wait a few months until they are officially out of the EU, then the issue will be moot.

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

No doubt those Belgians are not salaried, they work entirely on commission, so they MUST try to find red dye in order to earn their daily bread. Does no one have pity for them?

you know what ?
if you don't follow the law you have to face the consequences ..

to me it clearly seems like the UK government failed to supply 'protection from tax prosecution' to its people , after having been warned for over a decade .. I feel little pity. If anything the UK sailors should pay the fine , take the receipt and deduct it from their taxes or get it back from their government ?

Why beat the belgians over the head for following the rules and laws ?

"The UK government does require boats using red diesel to pay full duty and acknowledge they may face penalties for using it outside its waters."