Bahamas - the next cruising domino teeters...

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

One of the original reasons for the Bahamas upping cruising permit fees is that cruisers dont contribute much to the local economy: they bring their own lodging, transportation, much of their food, catch local seafood themselves, poo in the water...and then leave. Thats basically paraphrasing a comment of a Bahamian official at the time.

For most venues, cruisers tend to over estimate their economic impact.

Hi, B,
I think the official is perhaps representative of most government officials--clueless. Many cruisers are frugal, granted. However, they must buy diesel, water, reprovision supplies, the wife buys a straw hat, etc. As a business owner for almost 40 years, I welcomed purchases large and small because they all came "out in the wash" at the end of the year and made for a bigger bottom line. How many cruisers have experienced mechanical breakdowns each season spending thousands to repair their boat at inflated prices so they could continue to cruise in paradise? I would suggest that it's not as simple as the official has stated. Make your business and your country tourist friendly. It's a winning formula. Best, R

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

We need to realize that one couple or one family that books a hotel room/s for a week, and purchases three meals a day plus booze, and souvenirs for that week has a much larger economic impact than a cruising boat does in the same weeks time.
The Bahamians know who is buttering their bread, and we cruisers aren’t doing it. We do add some to the economy, but way less than land based tourism does.

Fair winds,

Agreed, but they concentrate where the touristy activities are.
A Cruiser moves around and buys provisions and food in the family Islands, so what little impact we have is spread around and goes often to the poorer parts of the Bahamas.
I’m still astonished at how little we are marketed to though, I would have expected a West Marine type store in Georgetown and Marsh Harbor, both have large transient populations of boats.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

One of the original reasons for the Bahamas upping cruising permit fees is that cruisers dont contribute much to the local economy: they bring their own lodging, transportation, much of their food, catch local seafood themselves, poo in the water...and then leave. Thats basically paraphrasing a comment of a Bahamian official at the time.

For most venues, cruisers tend to over estimate their economic impact.

That couldn't have been better stated.

[tomfl]

One of the biggest changes I have seen in boats from the US going to the Bahamas since I first went there in 1959 is what I call the sports fishing boats with three, four, five, or more outboards on the back or twin Detroit Diesel 60 series engines. Lots of these boats may head over from South Florida for a week, or even a long weekend. Simply one fill up of these boats may exceed how much a cruising sailboat spends in more than a month. Not to mention the bar bill for some of these boats can be more than I would spend in a month cruising.

There are fewer and fewer places in the Bahamas out of the reach of these fast boats from South Florida and this is not a consideration for the government officials there. No question in my mind there may even be a decrease in the number of what I would call "true cruisers" who have boats that can be self sufficient for a month or more and often are in places where there are simply no stores to buy things in.

It is all too easy to view things from a sailing/cruising perspective and ignore the fact that today the vast majority of folks who visit the Bahamas are looking for more of a Disney World experience than getting away from it all.

[belizesailor]

[QUOTE=Ecos;2932388][QUOTE=belizesailor;
For most venues, cruisers tend to over estimate their economic impact.




I think the Rio Dulce is a place where cruisers really do have a major economic impact.[/QUOTE]Yes, places like the Rio when cruisers congregate heavily and there are many boat services. Cruisers do congregate in Georgetown Bahamas so I think they have an impact there too.

But years ago, when they first raised the fees there was much of the same complaining and I dont think it had much impact on numbers (anecdotally at least, I dont have hard numbers).

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by tomfl

One of the biggest changes I have seen in boats from the US going to the Bahamas since I first went there in 1959 is what I call the sports fishing boats with three, four, five, or more outboards on the back or twin Detroit Diesel 60 series engines. Lots of these boats may head over from South Florida for a week, or even a long weekend. Simply one fill up of these boats may exceed how much a cruising sailboat spends in more than a month. Not to mention the bar bill for some of these boats can be more than I would spend in a month cruising.

There are fewer and fewer places in the Bahamas out of the reach of these fast boats from South Florida and this is not a consideration for the government officials there. No question in my mind there may even be a decrease in the number of what I would call "true cruisers" who have boats that can be self sufficient for a month or more and often are in places where there are simply no stores to buy things in.

It is all too easy to view things from a sailing/cruising perspective and ignore the fact that today the vast majority of folks who visit the Bahamas are looking for more of a Disney World experience than getting away from it all.

Yes, the big sportfishermen (who typically stay at marinas, not at anchor) and megayachts spend way more than the typical cruisers...and there are lots of both in the Bahamas.

Ive known the captains/owners of a few of each in the Bahamas and they do indeed pump a LOT of revenue into the local economy.

Case in point, we were waiting out some weather on Clarencetown, Long Island. A 65' sportfishing boat was waiting for its owner to arrive who had been delayed by bussiness matters. We made the acquaintance of the captain. A friend of the owner showed up first, its not much fun to fish w one guest, so the captain invited us along for a couple of days of fishing. At the end of the week captain went in to pay the fuel/marina tab and it was about $6,500...ours was more like $65. Multiply that by the number of sportfishers and megayachts in the Bahamas, some of whom spend way more than my example (just take a gander in Highborne Key Marina!) and your talking real money now.

[BlackHeron]

We are shelving our plans to go to the Bahamas this year. We will be staying in the states and cruising Florida's keys instead. We are running the numbers and the Bahamas are just too budget-busting for us right now.

We were doing pretty good budget-wise this summer cruising the New York Canals but now that we are up in Canada on the St. Lawrence the money isn't stretching nearly as far, exchange rate notwithstanding. It is $25/person to do nearly anything here in Kingston. $25 each to see the fort, $25 each to ride the tourist trolly, $25 each to attend a simple ghost walk? At least the ferry to Wolfe Island is free. Starting to wonder if we should have just stayed on the Canal.

International traveling gets expensive. I think for the next couple of seasons we'll leave it to the rich people and just stay in Murkah where we can afford it.

[rognvald]

"It is all too easy to view things from a sailing/cruising perspective and ignore the fact that today the vast majority of folks who visit the Bahamas are looking for more of a Disney World experience than getting away from it all." tomfl


Love it, Tom! And, I would agree that many cruisers we have met over the years love the circuses and herd instinct of cruising versus the isolation and quietude of some incredible Bahamian areas. Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

We are shelving our plans to go to the Bahamas this year. We will be staying in the states and cruising Florida's keys instead. We are running the numbers and the Bahamas are just too budget-busting for us right now.

We were doing pretty good budget-wise this summer cruising the New York Canals but now that we are up in Canada on the St. Lawrence the money isn't stretching nearly as far, exchange rate notwithstanding. It is $25/person to do nearly anything here in Kingston. $25 each to see the fort, $25 each to ride the tourist trolly, $25 each to attend a simple ghost walk? At least the ferry to Wolfe Island is free. Starting to wonder if we should have just stayed on the Canal.

International traveling gets expensive. I think for the next couple of seasons we'll leave it to the rich people and just stay in Murkah where we can afford it.

Hi, Heron,

What you say is true but our trip out the St. Lawrence River last Summer was not as expensive as traveling in the States/Bahamas due to the exchange rate. So, if you enjoy eating/drinking out/cultural tourism and staying in marinas, it indeed is very expensive everywhere today versus 20 years ago. Enjoy your time on the beautiful St. Lawrence! It's a treasure. Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald

[mjscottinnc]

[QUOTE=belizesailor;2932519]

Originally Posted by Ecos

Yes, places like the Rio when cruisers congregate heavily and there are many boat services. Cruisers do congregate in Georgetown Bahamas so I think they have an impact there too.

But years ago, when they first raised the fees there was much of the same complaining and I dont think it had much impact on numbers (anecdotally at least, I dont have hard numbers).

For the Bahamas it's a trade off. Do they cater to the Fisherman make lots of money on fuel and booze but have to tolerate the property damages, unbelievably arrogant treatment, and stupidity of typically young and privileged US fisherman or less income from a quieter, more mature clientele. I can't speak for the government officials in Nassau but in all the islands I visited the locals prefer the later.

If anyone is keeping a tally, I contributed about $1,000 a month during my last cruise. That was higher then normal as I was entertaining family members 70% of the time.

I was planning a 3 month return trip next fall, I've put that on hold. With the events in Georgia, closure of Cuba, and now the pending changes in the Bahamas, I will just wait to see how this all shakes out.

Just another proof of the 'Forrest Gump' rules for living

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’d bet that what you will see though is that a 90 day stay will be about what the current 1 yr one is and one year will be real expensive.

Which they may be shooting theirselves in the foot doing that as people won’t stay as long and if they aren’t in the Bahamas, it’s not likely they are spending money there.

So maybe they won’t jack up the prices realizing that they may lose income doing so? But it’s the Government, so who knows what will happen?

I feel they aren't going to do that. The article says that it is marina owners driving the issue as the last price increase hurt business. So I would expect a more terred price structure.

we will see

[Group9]

I was living in Miami when they instigated the 150/300 cruising fee. In a year, Bimini went from a thriving weekend getaway, to a broke dump.

Sometimes, the lesson of the 1990 luxury tax just has to be learned again and again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.d255ddf56758

[mjscottinnc]

Originally Posted by Group9

I was living in Miami when they instigated the 150/300 cruising fee. In a year, Bimini went from a thriving weekend getaway, to a broke dump.

Sometimes, the lesson of the 1990 luxury tax just has to be learned again and again.

I do remember that, the sad part is that if my memory is correct it took them 3 years to figure it out.

[KC375]

[QUOTE=mjscottinnc;2932648]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

...
If anyone is keeping a tally, I contributed about $1,000 a month during my last cruise. That was higher then normal as I was entertaining family members 70% of the time.

...

It’s true sailors may be more likely to make a contribution to the out-islands or family-islands than landlubbers but it is still often a very small contribution compared to landlubbers.
my family often complains that I’m painfully parsimonious, so I mean no disrespect to budget minded cruisers.
The example quoted above is consistent with the various budget/how much I spent threads elsewhere on this site. So $1000 for a month for at least three people...comes $11 a day per person.
That’s the maid service tip for one night’s hotel room...that’s not even a round of drinks. If you are responsible for economic development in the Bahamas you have to bring in an order of magnitude more cruisers than landlubbers for the same economic benefit(10-30 times as many). Where would you focus your economic development efforts?

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Hi, Heron,

What you say is true but our trip out the St. Lawrence River last Summer was not as expensive as traveling in the States/Bahamas due to the exchange rate. So, if you enjoy eating/drinking out/cultural tourism and staying in marinas, it indeed is very expensive everywhere today versus 20 years ago. Enjoy your time on the beautiful St. Lawrence! It's a treasure. Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald

We are hoping to save a bit of cash as we rarely stay at marinas and prefer to anchor out most all of the time. We were lured by the extremely cheap $8/day dockage in the confederation basin and got a bit carried away with the eating out and seeing the sites.

Montreal will probably be expensive when we get there, but so was NYC even with a $30/ball at 79th street. The US isn't without its tourist traps as well. One Broadway Show blew our budget as well there.

We will try to spend a few weeks gunkholing our way through the 1000 Islands and enjoying nature as we make our own (cheap) entertainment. We cruised extremely frugally in the Erie and Oswego canal for a couple of weeks. I suppose it all evens out in the wash.

But the point is, we will not be going to the Bahamas any time soon. We just aren't made if the kind of money it takes to do that. If the visa and other fees weren't so steep we could probably swing a couple week trip there and back depending on weather windows. But apparently they just don't want our skinflint kind there. We'll take the hint and cruise elsewhere then. We know when we aren't welcome.