Gemini Legacy 35

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

Does anyone have any opinion re a newer Legacy 35? The wife would like a cat and a Gemini seems to have some theoretical strengths for coastal enjoyment.

[wincrasher]

I think it’s attractive in pictures and videos, but reports I ‘ve read are not so flattering. Grumbling about sailing performance or lack thereof. It’s much less expensive that other production cats and it shows when seen side by side. I decided to buy an Oceanis 38.1 - has the openness you get with a cat, including an unusually large cockpit, but has better performance and better handling in big water.

[danielamartindm]

I don't think the cost savings on a new Legacy justify its choice over other (used) production cats, especially after you add on all of the "extras" and consider its size. The Legacy has shaft drives, which some prefer over the Sonic drive leg of its 34 foot predecessor, which is still in production, I believe. I haven't sailed one and can't comment on performance, but after a dockside perusal at Annapolis, I was not impressed by the interior finish or the heftiness of the rigging. It's clearly a coastal cruiser, and would be great for the Bahamas. Gemini has a huge presence in the marketplace, and many who own them really love them. if you're interested, you can probably arrange for a test sail of one at a boat show. Good luck, and fair winds.

[mjuneau]

Does anybody know what hull number they are up to on the Legacy 35?

[thinwater]

This is light ship, no dinghy and no stores, no cruiser stuff.


a. Dig the white water; she's dragging continuously, and still not a cruiser boat.
b. Check out the number of winches, the over-jammer situation by the helm, and the lack of room for trimmer or grinder.

[valhalla360]

I'm not a fan of the Legacy. We had a 3400 for 10 years and did the Great Loop on it. We loved the boat.

You really don't need twin engines on this size boat and the new design defeats a lot of the benefits in the original design. You also lose the boards and kick up rudders. As can be seen in the pictures, the twin engines really seems to weigh the stern down. With an outboard or outdrive that steers with the rudders, it's surprisingly maneuverable and avoids any drive-train metal in the water when retracted. When we sold, the 10yr old outboard had the original paint on the drive leg and no appreciable corrosion having changed the zinc once.

No it's not a gold plate'er but never was. It's simple and reliable. Some people are uncomfortable with flexing but it's designed to be light. I haven't heard of any structural issues due to this but cosmetic crazing of the gelcoat is common, so if cosmetics is high on your list, plan on occasional gelcoat repairs to keep it in check or look at other boats.

The beam is actually a big advantage as you can get into normal slips for a 34' boat. If you never go to marinas, that's not so much of an advantage but combined with minimal draft, it opens up some great opportunities.

I could see us eventually getting another Gemini when we get back to cruising the USA but not the legacy and my first preference would be an outboard model over the diesel outdrive.

For coastal cruising it's hard to beat. We went into places, we never would have considered with a deeper draft boat or with exposed running gear (doesn't apply to the Legacy). There are several that have done ocean crossings including circumnavigations. While we are coastal cruisers, I would have no concerns with taking a Gemini offshore (normal caviots about making sure any boat is in good condition before doing so).

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

b. Check out the number of winches, the over-jammer situation by the helm, and the lack of room for trimmer or grinder.

What's your concern?

While it can move along in the right conditions, it's really been marketed more as a cruising boat rather than a racer. I suppose if you race but then you can always modify the layout to your preference.

Up to around 15kt, I usually didn't bother cranking the winch on our 3400. Just got a good grip and pulled. The sail plan is small enough that the loads aren't crazy high.

[Davy J]

I’ve never sailed a Gemini Legacy, however have been aboard numerous models. The Catalina produced models are better finished than the ones Hunter produced. Contrary to one of the previous posters indicated, the Gemini 105Mc is no longer in production.

My wife likes the interior of the new model, and it is definitely more “yacht like.” I prefer retractable centerboards, lift-able outdrive and adjustable depth rudders. The Stiletto drive requires maintenance, but as Valhalla pointed out it’s nice to be able to lift it out of the water.

Back to the Legacy, twin engines will give phenomenal maneuverability. The Catalina produced boats will probably not have the gelcoat spider crack issues.

I should mention we just attended the St. Petersburg Boat Show. It’s the first time in over fifteen years that a Gemini boat was not displayed.

My model Gemini doesn’t like a steep short chop one the nose. From the looks of the Legacy it could be worse. We owned a smaller monohull for ten years before our Gemini. We won’t be going back to a monohull.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

What's your concern?

While it can move along in the right conditions, it's really been marketed more as a cruising boat rather than a racer. I suppose if you race but then you can always modify the layout to your preference.

Up to around 15kt, I usually didn't bother cranking the winch on our 3400. Just got a good grip and pulled. The sail plan is small enough that the loads aren't crazy high.

Sailing in real wind would be one reason. Helping the hemlsman in gusty conditions would be another. Try clearing an override in 20 knots. Or reefing, having to use one winch for everything. If it actually worked, boats would have fewer winches, since they cost real money. Could I sail with fewer winches? Yes. Would I want to? No, that would be silly, IMO.

One of the designers told me that the boat was designed for "another kind of sailor." Read between the lines.

On the other hand, if you could get the genoa in flat to windward in 15 knots true by hand, you are the man. I measured the sheet load at 1200 pounds on my PDQ 32, so you are either some strong or perhaps exaggerating a little bit. Many of my crew could not grind it in with a 10 inch handle on Lewmar 42s.

I like the MC105. I thought it was a really neat compromise boat with a lot of cool features.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Sailing in real wind would be one reason. Helping the hemlsman in gusty conditions would be another. Try clearing an override in 20 knots. Or reefing, having to use one winch for everything. If it actually worked, boats would have fewer winches, since they cost real money. Could I sail with fewer winches? Yes. Would I want to? No, that would be silly, IMO.

One of the designers told me that the boat was designed for "another kind of sailor." Read between the lines.

On the other hand, if you could get the genoa in flat to windward in 15 knots true by hand, you are the man. I measured the sheet load at 1200 pounds on my PDQ 32, so you are either some strong or perhaps exaggerating a little bit. Many of my crew could not grind it in with a 10 inch handle on Lewmar 42s.

I like the MC105. I thought it was a really neat compromise boat with a lot of cool features.

I should have clarified 15kts apparent. Pinched up tight in 15kts true, you are probably seeing somewhere around 22kts, so yeah, I would break out the winch handle.

Generally you can let go of the wheel for a few seconds to winch in the last bit but on the rare times, I've needed to hand off the wheel to winch in the genny, the new helmsman simply stands in front of the doorway allowing plenty of room to work the winch (if you turn the autopilot on and use the remote control, the helmsman can sit anywhere in the cockpit)....or are you assuming the helmsman stays seated on the outer bench like in the picture. That's a nice place if you are just out for a short day sail but on longer runs, most have a bench or stool in front of the wheel so you can face forward and not twisted around for long periods.

Again, if you are racing, you can always mount extra gear if you feel the need.

It may not be to your liking but with 10yrs on a Gemini with similar layout, never felt the need for more winches.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I should have clarified 15kts apparent. Pinched up tight in 15kts true, you are probably seeing somewhere around 22kts, so yeah, I would break out the winch handle.

Generally you can let go of the wheel for a few seconds to winch in the last bit but on the rare times, I've needed to hand off the wheel to winch in the genny, the new helmsman simply stands in front of the doorway allowing plenty of room to work the winch (if you turn the autopilot on and use the remote control, the helmsman can sit anywhere in the cockpit)....or are you assuming the helmsman stays seated on the outer bench like in the picture. That's a nice place if you are just out for a short day sail but on longer runs, most have a bench or stool in front of the wheel so you can face forward and not twisted around for long periods.

Again, if you are racing, you can always mount extra gear if you feel the need.

It may not be to your liking but with 10yrs on a Gemini with similar layout, never felt the need for more winches.

I seriously doubt the jib can be sheeted hard by hand in 15 knots apparent. Ican't do that on my F-24, and certainly never on the PDQ. I could sort of sheet it in, but not for true windward sailing.

15 knots true is really nothing for a cruising boat. Many sailors would feel that 10 knots true (15 apparent) isn't enough to bother going out, particularly when you consider the lulls are likely to be more like 5 knots. Normal sailing should include reasonable sail handling up 20 knots true IMO. That requires getting your shoulders over the winch, which is not practical in that position. Unless I'm off the wind, if I don't need a winch handle I'm probably thinking about starting the motor. Even beach cats have 2:1 sheets because no human can sheet them 1:1 in 10 knots true.

In summary, it is rigged for light air sailing. Given the lack of bridge deck clearance, going to windward in anything over 10 knots true would probably be a nightmare anyway.

I'm not bashing that it isin't nice at the dock, at anchor, and in light air. They've done some nice things with the space. I'm sayin' it isn't set up for vigorous sailing. Enjoy it for what it is.

[wincrasher]

Or just get electric winches

[Davy J]

In summary, it is rigged for light air sailing. Given the lack of bridge deck clearance, going to windward in anything over 10 knots true would probably be a nightmare anyway.

I can't speak to the Legacy model, but for the 105Mc this statement is not correct.

[ohdrinkboy]

I looked at the Legacy this year (2017) at the Annapolis boat show. They told me you can order without the diesels and you can outfit with twin outboard. Twin diesels are too much weight.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'm not bashing that it isin't nice at the dock, at anchor, and in light air. They've done some nice things with the space. I'm sayin' it isn't set up for vigorous sailing. Enjoy it for what it is.

We get it, you hate the boat.

We owned one for 10yrs and knew lots of other owners. No one ever had any of the issues you are bringing up handling lines and your issues are easily addressed if you don't like the setup.

To the OP: you might want to join the Yahoo Gemini Group. While it's mostly the older models, you will get a lot of more useful feed back than certain posters are providing, not to bash anyone.