Jeanneau vs Amel

[Thistleman]

[QUOTE=B23iL23;2981714]Ok Sojourner, I'll bite.

What is it with the new Amels (50 & 55) that you don't like or think has been lost from the previous models ( and that makes them "only good short range sailor and caribbean cruiser") ?


Ballast Displacement Ratios in the 20s

[wingssail]

[QUOTE=Thistleman;2981897]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok Sojourner, I'll bite.

What is it with the new Amels (50 & 55) that you don't like or think has been lost from the previous models ( and that makes them "only good short range sailor and caribbean cruiser") ?

Ballast Displacement Ratios in the 20s

They have lost the "weirdness" factor.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok Sojourner, I'll bite.

What is it with the new Amels (50 & 55) that you don't like or think has been lost from the previous models ( and that makes them "only good short range sailor and caribbean cruiser") ?

- Ketch rig. The 55 has that
- Skeg rudder. The 55 has that
- U shaped galley. 55 has that
- Sheltered helm (like it or love it). Both have that
- Great engine room. Both have that
- All sails/controls from the cockpit. Both have that.
- Watertight compartments fore and aft. Both have that.
- Great aft cabin. Both have that.
- Good Tankage. Both have that.
- Amel furling mast (like it or love it). Both have it.
- On deck storage (forward/aft/deck lockers). Both have them

Now granted you may not like the cosmetics, the styling and so on, and that's perfectly fine, but that doesn't impact their sailing qualities or them being less seaworthy.

I actually didn't say anything about their sailing abilities, I'm sure they out sail my old sm like a ferrari vs a winnibego

When I compared the 55, here is what I found, that maje them less suited for long range in my opinion.

Many fewer cleats and attachment points per side (3 vs 7) which are very very handy for tying dinghy, other people's dinghys, flopperstoppers, mooring on sketchy places and weather.

Their Cutter rigs make storing a big seaworthy dinghy very hard. Neither 54 nor 55 can handle my 3.3m all aluminum dinghy, which is very very handy to do big provisioning or scuba diving far from boat. My 55 neighbor has a dinky little thing he couldn't take out in half meter chop while I'm running errands 5 nm from the boat.

Cockpits are smaller by a bit on the 54 and by a lot on the 55.we spend 90 percent of our time up there. 54 has narrower cushions and angled ends, making it harder to stretch out on watch or just to relax. The 55 is just ridiculous, one of the bench seats we sleep comfortably on is truncated at the back of a permanent table installation, from a good 7 feet on ours to maybe 5 feet on the 55. Why would they do this? The 55 also has a tremendous, almost 1 meter dashboard distance, so anything placed there slides out of reach instantly. The sm has a smaller area here increasing usable cockpit size.

The 55s winches are outside the cockpit vs on large flat surfaces on the 53 and 54. Why does this matter? Its where I put my coffee, and rest my elbows while relaxing in the cockpit. You can't put a beer down in the 55 without using that unwieldy table.

Inside, the beds are center islands. Great for marinas. Not so much when rolling around.

Storage space. Half that of the 53. All those side windows eat up the cabinet space like you can't believe, unless you've counted them (I have)

Single smallish bow locker on 55 vs 2 huge ones on the 53. In a single one, I store a bunch of lines, 2 flop stoppers and a parasailor. You couldn't cram even just the sail into the 55 locker if you jumped on it.

Wide open floor plan with poor handholds. Again, not the best for rollicking around at night between continents.

So. The new amels could spank me till my momma cried when it comes to sailing, but to live on, no thanks. Wrong market. And to pay a million euros vs 200000, I'd buy 5 53s.

[B23iL23]

Sojourner,


Great feedback from someone that's obviously LIVED on a boat for a long time.



I was disappointed with the 55. The cockpit is very small and considering you spend most of your time there, it's a big let down. I'm 6 foot and would probably sleep in the cockpit (solo) and the 55 is just too damn short. Not sure where they were going with that.


Yes on the cutter rig. While I love the usefulness of this, it does limit your options with the dingy. It's a trade-off I guess. I think on the 50 it's an option so could be left off (not 100 % sure on that).


Speaking of cup (make that beer holders), I was looking for them on the 50, especially at the helm. Didn't see any but can add them as there is space.


Understand your take on the island berths but this has never been an issue with me - lee cloths either side and in the centre is usually enough for me.



thanks

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I actually didn't say anything about their sailing abilities, I'm sure they out sail my old sm like a ferrari vs a winnibego

When I compared the 55, here is what I found, that maje them less suited for long range in my opinion.

Many fewer cleats and attachment points per side (3 vs 7) which are very very handy for tying dinghy, other people's dinghys, flopperstoppers, mooring on sketchy places and weather.

Their Cutter rigs make storing a big seaworthy dinghy very hard. Neither 54 nor 55 can handle my 3.3m all aluminum dinghy, which is very very handy to do big provisioning or scuba diving far from boat. My 55 neighbor has a dinky little thing he couldn't take out in half meter chop while I'm running errands 5 nm from the boat.

Cockpits are smaller by a bit on the 54 and by a lot on the 55.we spend 90 percent of our time up there. 54 has narrower cushions and angled ends, making it harder to stretch out on watch or just to relax. The 55 is just ridiculous, one of the bench seats we sleep comfortably on is truncated at the back of a permanent table installation, from a good 7 feet on ours to maybe 5 feet on the 55. Why would they do this? The 55 also has a tremendous, almost 1 meter dashboard distance, so anything placed there slides out of reach instantly. The sm has a smaller area here increasing usable cockpit size.

The 55s winches are outside the cockpit vs on large flat surfaces on the 53 and 54. Why does this matter? Its where I put my coffee, and rest my elbows while relaxing in the cockpit. You can't put a beer down in the 55 without using that unwieldy table.

Inside, the beds are center islands. Great for marinas. Not so much when rolling around.

Storage space. Half that of the 53. All those side windows eat up the cabinet space like you can't believe, unless you've counted them (I have)

Single smallish bow locker on 55 vs 2 huge ones on the 53. In a single one, I store a bunch of lines, 2 flop stoppers and a parasailor. You couldn't cram even just the sail into the 55 locker if you jumped on it.

Wide open floor plan with poor handholds. Again, not the best for rollicking around at night between continents.

So. The new amels could spank me till my momma cried when it comes to sailing, but to live on, no thanks. Wrong market. And to pay a million euros vs 200000, I'd buy 5 53s.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I actually didn't say anything about their sailing abilities, I'm sure they out sail my old sm like a ferrari vs a winnibego



When I compared the 55, here is what I found, that maje them less suited for long range in my opinion.



Many fewer cleats and attachment points per side (3 vs 7) which are very very handy for tying dinghy, other people's dinghys, flopperstoppers, mooring on sketchy places and weather.



Their Cutter rigs make storing a big seaworthy dinghy very hard. Neither 54 nor 55 can handle my 3.3m all aluminum dinghy, which is very very handy to do big provisioning or scuba diving far from boat. My 55 neighbor has a dinky little thing he couldn't take out in half meter chop while I'm running errands 5 nm from the boat.



Cockpits are smaller by a bit on the 54 and by a lot on the 55.we spend 90 percent of our time up there. 54 has narrower cushions and angled ends, making it harder to stretch out on watch or just to relax. The 55 is just ridiculous, one of the bench seats we sleep comfortably on is truncated at the back of a permanent table installation, from a good 7 feet on ours to maybe 5 feet on the 55. Why would they do this? The 55 also has a tremendous, almost 1 meter dashboard distance, so anything placed there slides out of reach instantly. The sm has a smaller area here increasing usable cockpit size.



The 55s winches are outside the cockpit vs on large flat surfaces on the 53 and 54. Why does this matter? Its where I put my coffee, and rest my elbows while relaxing in the cockpit. You can't put a beer down in the 55 without using that unwieldy table.



Inside, the beds are center islands. Great for marinas. Not so much when rolling around.



Storage space. Half that of the 53. All those side windows eat up the cabinet space like you can't believe, unless you've counted them (I have)



Single smallish bow locker on 55 vs 2 huge ones on the 53. In a single one, I store a bunch of lines, 2 flop stoppers and a parasailor. You couldn't cram even just the sail into the 55 locker if you jumped on it.



Wide open floor plan with poor handholds. Again, not the best for rollicking around at night between continents.



So. The new amels could spank me till my momma cried when it comes to sailing, but to live on, no thanks. Wrong market. And to pay a million euros vs 200000, I'd buy 5 53s.

I have to admit that I did not like the looks of the older Amel boats. They are an acquired taste. But, after I researched the brand I find them beautiful. I’m generally more interested in function over looks.

I can understand your feelings about your SM. There are pros and cons in everything... Here’s my opinion on some of the things you posted.

My Amel 50 has more than enough cleats per side. I haven’t found the need for more yet.

I have an aluminum hull 3.10 dinghy with 20hp outboard and I could have gotten a bigger one, but I wanted something light enough to drag on sand. I’ve heard that some A50 owners have selected a 3.40 dinghy.

The cockpit on the Amel 50 is much larger than the one on the SM or the 55. The winches are not in the way. The table is located perfectly. The helm seat rotates and is height adjustable. The bench seats are long and very wide. I can sleep on either side seats or even across. I’m 5.10. The engine room hatch opens without having to remove anything and it’s a huge engine room for a 50 footer.

I have lee cloths for the sides and center of both queen sized beds. I also have lee cloths for the two bunk beds and the saloon settee, which is at the center or the boat. I can sleep 7 persons safely with lee cloths at the same time, not that I want that many on board.

I have handholds on the salon overhead, table and cabinets. I always have something to hold on to. The galley area is perfect to brace yourself.

I have more storage that I know what to do with and my boat is loaded with too much stuff... I don’t know if the SM has more storage (because the A50 has more interior living space volume), but I prefer the hull windows to even more storage, which I don’t need.

In the bow storage area I have a double inflatable kayak, paddle board and a gennaker. There’s still room and I’m thinking about getting a Code 0. I can access the bow thruster just by removing a cover.

Frankly, if I could not afford my Amel 50, I would have bought an Amel 54 or SM. But, if I don’t spend the money I worked for, it will go wasted. So, I now have an Amel 50 and I’m very happy with her.

The intention of my post is not to put down the SM. I really like all Amel boats. It is just to point out that my experience with the newer Amel boats is different than yours.

[B23iL23]

I get where you are coming from on this but I would trade lockers for big windows every day of the week. If I'm going to be living on board I want a light, bright interior and not a cave. That's down to taste but for me a boat with a dark interior is a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by Sojourner

...

Storage space. Half that of the 53. All those side windows eat up the cabinet space like you can't believe, unless you've counted them (I have)


..

[daletournier]

How much storage does one need? Surely alls boats have more than enough storage?

I know mine has less storage than a Amel 53, it would be nice to have abit more deck storage BUT I really dont need it, I'd rather the extra living space and windows. Part of owning a boat is to minimize stuff!

I like Amel 53's but to me they are old designs, I like form and function, finding the right balance is the key.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by daletournier

How much storage does one need? Surely alls boats have more than enough storage?

I know mine has less storage than a Amel 53, it would be nice to have abit more deck storage BUT I really dont need it, I'd rather the extra living space and windows. Part of owning a boat is to minimize stuff!

I like Amel 53's but to me they are old designs, I like form and function, finding the right balance is the key.

I meant to say all boats over 50ft have enough storage.

[barnakiel]

I do not like the new mono mast Amels either BUT


They are nothing new to Amel, I have seen sloop Amels ages ago, maybe around 2005?


My liking or disliking may have to do with never seeing any of the new ones very close up and personal?


Everybody knows the touch and feel of a Bava, Benne or Jeanneau because these are so very common in every marina. But a new Amel 50 is still rare bird (unless maybe you are located in France).


Le Marin has a good population of Amels all of them on the same pontoon (maybe an Amel charter or service point, don't know). Winter 2017 /-18 there was not a single Amel 50 there yet.


Cheers,
b.

[skipperpete]

I recently spent some time aboard an Amels 64 and any similarity between it and the original Amels range has disappeared . Make no mistake , the 64 is a really beautiful boat and my guess would be that she would be very fast under sail but this is more of a little superyacht than the tough and enduring Maramu range. I firmly believe that common rail diesel engines should have no place aboard deep sea passage making yachts and Amels use a honking big Steyr fully electronic main engine with total touch panel control and the single AC genset is an electronically governed but mercifully non common rail Cummins Onan. The engine room is actually quite spacious but access to the stbd side of the main engine is incredibly difficult. When the machinery first began to become problematic , Amel sent engineers from the factory to fix it on several occasions while it was still under warranty and she seems to be behaving herself now.
Stunning yacht with absolutely every modern electronic and mechanical advance incorporated but I get the feeling that this is not the ship to cross oceans with....... for that , get a Super Maramu.

[drewm3i]

Seeing this did not make me feel good about Jeanneau:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CilPa6OJj4&t=743s

[carstenb]

I believe the OP said he wanted to sail to and from and in the carribean. Either boat will do this very well. We have been cruising non-stop for over 3 years on our Jeanneau and have met many Amels on our way. Nice boat and if we were choosing again we might just decide to go for one.

Regarding seaworthyness - the skipper and crew are the most important factors - but a heavier boat will handle heavier seas more easily

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

Seeing this did not make me feel good about Jeanneau:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1&d=1569291538

How does this make you feel about Oyster. This boat was only a couple months old. It lost its keel and sank. Lead to the bankruptcy of the fine company. Point is, you probably can find an isolated fact to support any conclusion you want.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by boom23

I have to admit that I did not like the looks of the older Amel boats. They are an acquired taste. But, after I researched the brand I find them beautiful. I’m generally more interested in function over looks.

I can understand your feelings about your SM. There are pros and cons in everything...

Well, I have no experience or opinion of the 50 because it isn't a ketch. Very pretty as all new amels are, and i'm sure very quick.

I didn't mean to sound like I'm putting down the other Amels at all. I just think since the original Henri died, the design has been radically shifting toward what probably in all fairness the market wants: beamy, wide stern, slick open floorplans with lots of windows, marina life, wanting to sail on the weekend or at most a few months out of the year. Which might be perfect for the OP, after all.

As for the comment about who needs more storage, anyone who lives on their boat

[boom23]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Well, I have no experience or opinion of the 50 because it isn't a ketch. Very pretty as all new amels are, and i'm sure very quick.



I didn't mean to sound like I'm putting down the other Amels at all. I just think since the original Henri died, the design has been radically shifting toward what probably in all fairness the market wants: beamy, wide stern, slick open floorplans with lots of windows, marina life, wanting to sail on the weekend or at most a few months out of the year. Which might be perfect for the OP, after all.



As for the comment about who needs more storage, anyone who lives on their boat

No offense taken. You are correct regarding design changes to meet the new market demands. I’m glad the company is adapting and surviving. All Amel boats have the Amel DNA in them. They are still capable, and are now suited for a variety of uses. Time, and us the cruisers, will prove the rest. So far, so good!

Regarding storage, we live on our boat for the better part of the year and we have absolutely (too much) everything with us. We have used about half the storage area. Amel boats, due to their dry bilge, have TONS of storage.

I think the topic of this thread was “Jeanneau vs Amel” and not older vs newer Amel...