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Old 12-07-2020, 00:18   #61
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Re: So, He Was Right !

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
My bad, they reached Madahascar in 700CE not earlier.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Madagascar/History

Early history
Archaeological investigations in the 20th century indicated that human settlers reached Madagascar about 700 CE. Although the huge island lies geographically close to Bantu-speaking Africa, its language, Malagasy, belongs to the distant Western Malayo-Polynesian branch of the Austronesian language family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesians

Polynesians, including Rotumans, Samoans, Tongans, Niueans, Cook Islands Māori, Tahitian Mā'ohi, Hawaiian Māoli, Marquesans and New Zealand Māori, are a subset of the Austronesian peoples. They share the same origins as the indigenous peoples of Taiwan, Southeast Asia (especially the Philippines, Malaysia and eastern Indonesia), Micronesia, and Madagascar.[8] This is supported by genetic,[9] linguistic[10] and archaeological evidence.
So they weren't necessarily Polynesian but of the same people and language groups from which the Polynesians descended.

On that information I would be more comfortable with the inference that the Madagascar mob went west into and across the Indian Ocean and the Polynesian east into the Pacific.

The modern Malay peoples were quiet significant seafarers themselves.
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Old 12-07-2020, 00:21   #62
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Re: So, He Was Right !

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Madagascar was discovered and populated by the Polynesians


You are confusing Polynesian,, Western Malayo-Polynesian and Austronesian.

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
My bad, they reached Madahascar in 700CE not earlier.


Early history
Archaeological investigations in the 20th century indicated that human settlers reached Madagascar about 700 CE. Although the huge island lies geographically close to Bantu-speaking Africa, its language, Malagasy, belongs to the distant Western Malayo-Polynesian branch of the Austronesian language family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesians

Polynesians, including Rotumans, Samoans, Tongans, Niueans, Cook Islands Māori, Tahitian Mā'ohi, Hawaiian Māoli, Marquesans and New Zealand Māori, are a subset of the Austronesian peoples. They share the same origins as the indigenous peoples of Taiwan, Southeast Asia (especially the Philippines, Malaysia and eastern Indonesia), Micronesia, and Madagascar.[8] This is supported by genetic,[9] linguistic[10] and archaeological evidence.


Madagascans are Austronesian, as are Polynesians, but they are not Polynesians. They are a different subset of Austronesian, to whit "Western Malayo-Polynesian."
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Old 12-07-2020, 00:23   #63
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Re: So, He Was Right !

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Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
So they weren't necessarily Polynesian but of the same people and language groups from which the Polynesians descended.

On that information I would be more comfortable with the inference that the Madagascar mob went west into and across the Indian Ocean and the Polynesian east into the Pacific.

The modern Malay peoples were quiet significant seafarers themselves.

You got it. The different group diversified as they spread out at different times in different directions from South East Asia. But they all share Austronesian roots.
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Old 20-07-2020, 09:27   #64
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Re: So, He Was Right !

I have been navigated from an atoll about 130 miles north of the Solomons to another atoll 460 nautical miles north of it. The people of both were of basically Polynesian heritage with a bit of Melanesian added.


The navigator, about 60 in the 1970s still knew the chants for that passage, & a couple of others I did not test. His navigation got us to with in 30 miles of the atoll, which at only 60 Ft high to the tops of the palm trees was well below the horizon.



By then looking up into the distant clouds he showed me you could see the turquoise reflection of lagoon water in the clouds, & home in to the atoll.


I have since used this method to home in on isolated reefs in the Great Barrier Reef, & through out the pacific islands. To show this was no fluke he then navigated me back to his home island, taking along with a bride for his son.


They no longer made the 80Ft & bigger double canoes of their past, with which they had made these trips, but they did have a 53Ft single hulled canoe, built in a log sourced from a high volcanic island about 70 miles away.


The things hull was about 4" thick with over 7Ft beam, with a water tight deck & powered by a small diesel . It handled their lagoon which was 30 miles long by 10 wide, & not exactly tranquil in heavy weather, but I don't think it would be a sea boat, unless half of a double canoe.
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Old 20-07-2020, 09:38   #65
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Re: So, He Was Right !

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The NYT published an article on this, yesterday: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/s...-ancestry.html



It's been a long time since I read this about Tikopia where the farthest west Polynesian colony is, but theirs is a pretty interesting history. It is a small volcanic island, the easternmost of the Solomon Islands. The crater lake there is the people's fresh water source. [It was breached in a cyclone, and the Australian gov't helped repair the breach.] At one time, the chief/king* decided that the pigs were eating more food than they were providing, so they killed them all. [This from Jared Diamond's Collapse.] So that there would be enough for the people. But, when the people exceeded the food supply, several young men were sent out by boat, to either find a new island, or perish in the attempt....and this is in my lifetime. [from cruisers] And, pigs have been re-introduced. [via ham radio]

Off topic, but if you are passing by Tikopia (post-COVID) it is worth a stop. We stopped there mid passage once when the trade winds shut down for a few days: https://sv-fluenta.blogspot.com/2017...in-photos.html
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Old 20-07-2020, 11:39   #66
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Re: So, He Was Right !

Both the Greeks and the Egyptians knew the earth was round, and the Greeks had a very good estimate of the circumference, as did the scholars and mapmakers of Columbus' time. That is why the scholars and court advisers poured cold water on Columbus' plan to reach India by sailing west. Columbus' estimate of the earth's diameter was too low by a factor of 5. Using a more accurate estimate, it was and is impractical to sail to India from Europe by sailing west. The longitude of India was known to Europeans through the land exploration of Marco Polo. That is why Columbus accused his crew of sabotaging the ship's hourglass, when it was probably him. If they knew what time it was, they would be able to deduce their correct longitude, and they would know that they had not arrived at India.
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Old 20-07-2020, 11:56   #67
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Re: So, He Was Right !

I had a good friend, Manley St Denis, a naval architect who spent some years at the University of Hawaii. He told me about the native navigators, of which he said there was only one left. This was some time ago. The Polynesians navigated thousands of miles across open waters without maps, compass, instruments, or even pen and paper. Everything was in their heads, passed from one generation to the next. They said that "every island has its star." Besides using cues that Hasbeen cited, the navigator would lie on his back at night, and imagine the lines traced by the stars in the sky. These lines would of course be the lines of latitude of the stars. Knowing which star corresponded to a particular island, the navigator would plot a course south or north until the line traced by the destination island was reached, then sail left or right, guided by other cues, until the island was reached. There is no doubt that the Polynesians were the propagators of the errant DNA. They had the documented sailing skills.
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Old 20-07-2020, 13:44   #68
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Re: So, He Was Right !

regarding columbus , there was a Scottish navigator who most likely found the Americas before columbus , this Navigator was Called Sinclair , Sinclair was a Scottish / Norse nobleman who came from the Orkneys , it is mostly accepted that the Vikings discovered America before columbus , there is also a Masonic connection between Columbus and Sinclair

On the subject of DNA , i did two tests from different companies , it was interesting to see the different clusters around the globe through the immigration of Scots around the world , the other test was going back to " Adam " , I was given my breakdown as starting in North Africa but mu overall percentages are 96% North European and 4% from the Area now known as Turkey

Try these DNA tests , you might be in for a surprise or two
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Old 20-07-2020, 16:12   #69
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Re: So, He Was Right !

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proof beyond the doubt that catamarans are superior to monohulls.
Yes, Catamarans are good rafts.
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Old 21-07-2020, 20:09   #70
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Re: So, He Was Right !

All the evidence points to Polynesians coming from the W. Deliberately, exploring and settling.

However, just a thought, surely its possible the arrival of a raft from S America in French Polynesia might have given the cofidence that there was land a long way to the E, which could have helped trigger the very long voyages from E Polynesia that found , for example, Hawaii and Easter Island?

For Oceanic navigation, "We the Navigators" 1st edition, is available Free online.
2nd edition is still in print
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Old 21-07-2020, 20:13   #71
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Re: So, He Was Right !

Signature update failed, Risky Business is actually in French Polynesia
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