Help us cast off! Need advice and inspiration: Family of 3, Great Loop? Boat size etc

[HBWT]

It loos like you got some good information regarding the where and what. Let me add:

Health Insurance advice. (AS OF THE CURRENT LAW) If you have no taxable income when cruising, your health insurance would be free and covered under medicaid. This would change if you are drawing from investment accounts. As your income moves above 100%FPL to 400%FPL ($20,000 - $81,000) you would receive a tax credit to reduce your health insurance cost. Again this is only on taxable income and if everything is in savings, this would not be taxable.

If you do have taxable income, this will still be expensive compared to what your needs will be. But if you spend more than 90 days in country (U.S) you are mandated to have coverage. As soon as you set-off for lower cost of living waters (think central america) you may want to self insure 9pay cash) and have a emergency evacuation plan policy to get you back to the states if anything really bad happens. Everything else would probably be taken care of by local doctors and you will be charged pennies on the dollar for probably similar care.

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Go get a Catalina 30 with a diesel and get moving.

Be prepared to be shocked by the cost of health insurance.

Like this one? http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/68393
PLEASE someone buy that thing so I can quit checking the ad every other day. I'm guessing she'd take a few $thousand to get back to Bristol condition, but come on, $6500? That's cheap.

Health insurance, assuming the ACA doesn't get repealed, would be around $900/month for our family. There are a few creative ways to reduce this though. Just wondering what other people do.

Originally Posted by Tetepare

You don't need a windlass at your age. A furling headsail though can be a security item so you don't have to go on deck in rough seas.

If you plan to sail in salt water, start eating fish. It's free and healthy.

I've entertained the idea of a junk rig for its dead simple reefing ability from the cockpit, but I need to sail one first before getting too excited about it. We'd enjoy being the odd ball at the marina, also, so I can see a junk in our future.

I've been a (freshwater) fisherman my whole life, and could be converted to eating fish again. But then again, the worst day of my life came from eating seafood (raw oysters). Put me in the hospital for a day, missed two days of work (OK, so that part wasn't so bad). And then I read Clare Allcard's account of ciguatera and how they thought they were going to die from the poisoning. So, we'll keep fish in mind. I already own saltwater tackle and a few guides.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Go get a Catalina 30 with a diesel and get moving.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You don't need a windlass at your age. A furling headsail though can be a security item so you don't have to go on deck in rough seas.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

C30 is a good idea.

Windlass? What happens if you get hurt? Can your wifey raise the anchor? Real life question. I hurt myself at the beginning of our trip from SF to Vancouver Island in 2016. Glad my son was along. Adding a windlass is not always easy, to say nothing of the electrical system required to make it work and the knowledge needed to do so.

[barnakiel]

I think blogs vlogs etc are not MY pick for info. They are fine to read on destinations, preferences, fun, etc. BUT you must know the difference between art and data.

So read what you like, just think if what you are reading is data or material meant to sell provide other with daily bread.

Cheers,
b.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Joe P

Our son would be eligible for the CHIP program wherever we reside.

CHIP was not renewed by congress. I suppose no family will know if they can count on that coverage moving forward until after the tax plan has been settled. Unfortunately a lot of people are unable to plan for future health coverage at this moment in time.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...011-story.html

"We know that Congress is just unimaginably busy right now, so perhaps it’s understandable that 11 days after funding for a crucial children’s healthcare program expired, the lawmakers still haven’t gotten around to restoring it.We’re talking about the Children’s Health Insurance Program, a state-federal program serving 9 million children and their mothers. We reported earlier, as the Sept. 30 deadline for federal reauthorization of CHIP was closing in, that delay was placing state programs in dire jeopardy.
There’s still no schedule for a vote on CHIP in either chamber on Capitol Hill."

[laika]

Originally Posted by Joe P

Been a lurker for a while, time for my first post....

Well, the wife and I are in our mid-30's (OK, fine.... LATE 30's) and have decided to take an active role in our life plan, rather than mindlessly battling the rat race and waiting for life to just "happen" along the way. (That, along with finding the rampant consumerism and over consumption that pervades our landlubber culture intolerable, but that's another discussion....Still, we're no Luddites ourselves)

We've paid all our debts and have kept our expenses low, all the while our incomes have increased through the years. Thus, upon selling the house, we'll have enough savings to live off for 10-20 years with no income, depending on how frugal we want to be. We also have a comfortable amount in retirement savings, which will be left alone. We're both have college degrees and marketable skills and experience, so could enter the workplace again easily.

We have one son, five years old, who loves boating, camping and adventure. We're all in great health (vegetarians), cook all our meals from scratch, are handy, and repair stuff when it breaks. We're prepared to homeschool, at least until the high school years.

For the past few years, our plan was to downsize and start a homestead. Earlier this year though, we discovered the concept of a liveaboard cruising family and it seemed like that's what we've been searching for all along. I've since read dozens of books, took a 5-week sailing class, and we've started unloading our excess belongings. The wife has given it her seal of approval and is on board (as long as a hair dryer is available... still working on that one).


Some questions:

1) Blogs. I have many blogs bookmarked, but sure I've missed some. Got any to share, especially ones which resemble our family size and age? I figure these are some of the best sources of information and motivation.

2) Where to start? We thought the Great Loop would be a good, less intimidating start to the cruising and liveaboard life (although there's little sailing to do). Not too far from civilization, etc. Would you recommend this? We thought cruising the Florida coast would also suit us, and would involve more sailing. We're currently in Georgia, in the Atlanta suburbs, with parents in the Augusta area.

3) Vessel selection - size. What would be your recommendation? I know we have to decide this as a family, as living space is a very personal decision, but I'd still value your opinion on where to start. We're trying to find the smallest boat that will fit us comfortably. I'm thinking something around 30'-35', with a quarterberth for our boy and V-berth for the parents. Aft cabin boats look great too for their floorplan, but in that size range (think S2 9.2C), I've heard they're pretty cramped. Also, the steering is more complicated. With a small boat, we can also drop the mast ourselves on the Great Loop, when needed. If it was trailerable, it'd open up a whole lot more options (I know the boat listed above doesn't exist! Just listing some thoughts).

4) Price point. I recognize (more often than not) the buyer gets a better deal on a recently refitted boat than if he was to do it himself. In your opinion, where's the break-even point for vessel cost with a previous refit vs. refitting on your own, for a boat in the low 30' size range? From my observation, it looks like we'll need to spend around $15k-$35k, for a "simple", older boat with no major problems, good sails, good rigging, good engine. We're prepared to spend more, but it seems that would only buy "newer", with more frills and features which we don't need.

I want a minimum of electronics and doo-dads on board, for simplicity. (I'm a mechanical engineer, and have spent a 14-year career servicing and troubleshooting industrial electromechanical controls; I know what I'm talking about!). Thus, another reason to stay small, so we won't need power roller furlings, windlass, etc. As a disciple of Jay Fitzgerald and other "simple sailors", I'd even entertain the idea of an engineless vessel, although for the Loop and, as a first large boat, this would be impractical. For the Loop, impossible.

5) Health insurance. What are non-employed cruisers doing, insurance-wise? I know I'll be (rightfully) directed to read the forums here.... yet still I ask.

6) How have other families made the transition? I need details. I was thinking we'd downsize, sell the house, rent an apartment in Florida while boat-hunting, move aboard (living at the marina, until we're comfortable with handling the boat and finished outfitting), then cast off. Our parents would assist with storing the few things we don't part with, and handle our mail. Sound good? What are the alternatives?

Another crazy idea I had would be to have the (or, a) boat (or camper) parked on the side of the house and we live out of it for a few weeks. However, I think it'd be too tempting to (literally) abandon ship, run back into the comfortable house, and swear off the whole boat idea. It seems like we need to dive in head first if we're going to be successful, making failure not an option.

7) Any other families out there cruising with a single child? We recognize the need to socialize, but from what I've read, sailors are a friendly bunch and I'm sure we'll have no problem. I just wonder how many families we'll meet though with kids of a similar age....



Help keep us moving the in right direction! I'm afraid of becoming a lifelong armchair sailor while waiting for the stars to align. We all know that'll never happen. It's all too easy to dream about this while keeping comfort and (perceived) safety close at hand. We need to hold fast and stay the course to make this work.

My sincerest gratitude for your thoughts regarding the above verbose ramblings. Let it flow!

Hi Joe and welcome. A few opinions and wild conjectures..

Ditch the engineless idea. Having an engine opens up so much more in terms of where and when you can go places. For you and the fam starting out, the ICW is a great way to see America. Can't really do that without an engine. More broadly, most every sailor that I've met motorsails more often than not. You've gotta have a LOT more patience if there's no option to simply turn the key over.

Think about a manual windlass as a happy medium between having no windlass and the complexities of an electric. I'm 34 and been happily using my manual sense moving aboard this boat 7 years ago. Not needed, but I would certainly be hard pressed to give it up.

Don't write the Bahamas off as a place to get your feet wet. The gulf stream crossing can be timed for perfect wx with a little patience and the Abacos and Exumas in particular are great safe exotic places to get your feet wet.

My boat, a Vancouver 27, is right on the edge of what's trailerable w/o a wideload permit. I have a trailer for it, but the towing weight is about 12000 lbs which means you need to hire it out or rent an F350 or equivalent to trailor it anywhere. As it's a "bluewater" boat with a beefy rig, stepping the mast is not really feasible without a crane (tho a tabernacle might solve that problem).
Long and short, I would ditch the trailerable idea if the boat is to be a long term abode. What you get from a trailerable boat is not worth the compromises your family would likely have to make in terms of liveability and safe offshore sailing.

Re: the minimum of electronics..I definitely do not want to dissuade you from going small, simple, now, etc. But some gadgets are really nice to have. AIS is a great safety feature, especially if making shorthanded passages with a young family. A watermaker is the best thing I've added and makes my boat and it's small watertanks infinitely more long-ranging and self-reliant. Solar panels and a big enough battery bank allows me to work via computer from the boat and supplies the amperage for the WM and a small efficient fridge .. preserving small amounts of fresh food and enjoying the occasional cold beer away from civilization. Small luxuries! Maybe also the power for some kind of basic wx forecasting tools which can be a huge boon in more remote places.
The list might go on depending on personal styles..point is, don't write off the small luxuries that make living for long periods on the water feel less like survival camping, and that might provide better safety margins. Ideally you start off simple and add the things as you come to want them. really hard to know what those things are until you're out there on the water yourself.

Lastly, I don't have kids, just me and the GF cruising it part time now. Was full timing it from 26-33 tho, and over the years met tons of well adjusted cruising kids, all bad ass, resourceful and well socialized. It's a wonderful lifestyle and is easily worth the tradeoffs. High highs and low lows, but probably the last truest bastion of freedom in the world. Overall advise would be to jump in head first, but also leave yourself and the fam an escape route (which it sounds like you're doing). If things don't work out or you guys eventually want to dry your feet off on land again there'll be no regrets either way.

Best of luck!

[canyonbat]

Originally Posted by Joe P

Another crazy idea I had would be to have the (or, a) boat (or camper) parked on the side of the house and we live out of it for a few weeks. However, I think it'd be too tempting to (literally) abandon ship, run back into the comfortable house, and swear off the whole boat idea. It seems like we need to dive in head first if we're going to be successful, making failure not an option.

I happen to think this is a good idea. We have been doing it for the past several years, gradually increasing the time spent aboard from long weekends, to a couple of weeks and to this last summer, 4 months. Next summer will probably be closer to 5 or 6 months. One of the biggest things to get used to is the lack of time to yourself. This can and does put a lot of stress on even the best relationship. Now, having said that, most trailerable sailboats are tiny and are best launched only when they can stay in the water for a few days at a time. Trying to day sail one is no fun. Even the best take an hour or so to set up and another hour to take down (you will hear stories of less time but, for normal people count on an hour minimum. Our Seaward takes two to three hours each way).

[Dave22q]

You are making some very risky assumptions. Unless you and your spouse have unusual skills you may find that reentry into the job market after a long absence at an older age is a lot easier said than done. You might be a lot better of at sharpening your skills by day sailing a lot and chartering whenever you can take a week or two. You might also want to train for cramped living for a year or two. Rent a small apartment, put almost all of your stuff in storage, and minimize going out. It's a rough approximation but might help you learn if cruising / living aboard is right for you.

[Jameshalpin]

Don’t upgrade your electronics. Just get an iPad with cellular service through Verizon. Then buy garmin blue charts for it, buy the maps, and buy the weather. Use active captain. It is all you will need to learn local knowledge, weather, charting, and marinas and anchor spots.

[Jameshalpin]

Do AIS through the boat beacon app on your iPad.

[Henk Koornstra]

I wish you the best in your endeavor, it will be very rewarding. We have been gone for five plus years and have not regretted it.

In order to become more inspired, my suggestion is to join the Seven Seas Cruising Association. You can contact them on SSCA.org. They have a monthly periodical with articles written by sailors who are sailing in different areas. They helped us a lot and kept the flame burning to go. The website also has boat equipment comparison, based on experience by the members and lots more.

Insurance? Have as a minimum liability insurance for your boat. You may consider buying more anchoring and boat safety gear instead of additional boat insurance. If you sail, watch the weather and get out of the way of hurricanes by season or know of a real hurricane hole without lots of charter boats.

Health insurance? If you sail outside the US, health care is more affordable than health insurance. But consider your health history before making that decision.

Good luck

[stormalong]

Before you buy and prepare a boat you need to prepare you and your wife. At this point ANY sailing experience is valuable. Don't buy a boat until you know what you are getting into. Start with daysailing. Find a local club. People are always looking for race crew. A few overnighters will add to your experience. Then get yourself a berth on a trip to Bermuda or the Bahamas. Do not buy a boat until you have done at least this.

With some experience you will be better equipped to make the right decisions. Someone recommending specific boats to you at this point is not helping. Getting the boat that serves your family's wants and needs is a very personal decision. The more knowledge and experience you have the better your decision will be.

It is a big step - don't trip.

[Emptynest]

We sailed S2 30 in Lake Michigan from 83-90 good comfortable & sailing boat. we knew when we retired in 91 that we needed more room for the two of us &we liked the room we had in the c c &bought a 40 ft Endeavor cc with roller furling head & main sail & electric windless and auto pilot .Cruised to FL.Via the Erie Canal to Miami to the Bahamas. Returned to FL & stored for the summers & returned every winter until 05 when we sold her. Good Luck Go for it

[John P. Harris]

For a wealth of information about America Great Loop, and multiple answers to any questions you may have join the AGLCA. It is inexpensive and has a wealth of information, along with 100's of "Loopers"to answer your questions.

Enjoy the Loop it is a great experience, that you will always remember.

My estimate is the average traveler around the 6,000 to 8,000 miles loop takes about 365 days. Some do it in one continuous trip, others do it in smaller pieces.

John (on our third circle)

[Scout 30]

For both the great loop & live aboard in general I recommend a trawler. A dirty secret about sailboats is that if you are actually trying to get somewhere, unless you're crossing an ocean, most sailors motor most of the time & with the great loop you'll pretty much be motoring all of the time. You might as well get a boat that's got more room, is designed for motoring & avoid maintaining a rig you'll seldom use. You can get an aft cabin version of a Marine Trader, Albin or sometimes even a Grand Banks in your price range & that way both you & your child can have your own stateroom.

If you're set on a sailboat I recommend an Island Packet 31. Very roomy with a pilot berth that can be enclosed. Plus it has a shoal draft which you'll really appreciate on the ICW, the Keys & the Bahamas.