Water in the Pacific

[daletournier]

In regards to selling when finished with, the Rainman would be one that should sell easily, portable and reasonably priced.

[Eder]

I have owned my FCI 120v watermaker for 5 years now...maintenance is limited to oil change every 500 hours on the high pressure pump, a new $10 chlorine filter each season in case I use dock water from time to time, and a $15 pool filter for the seawater I swap out once/season as well. I guess after 10 years I may have to pop in a couple new generic membranes...maybe $500.
What do other people spend on their watermakers after purchase?

[2big2small]

Here’s our experience for further comparison.

On our first long trip on a boat without watermaker we used 37 liters or 10 gallons a day for two crew, when we’d be anchored at nights. This provided for a daily shower and doing dishes with fresh water. We didn’t drink out of the tank and bought bottled water. Of course during ocean passages water conservation was a security consideration and we used way less. Wherever we took on water we added copious doses of chlorine to it. (Water in Africa was yellow.) Kind of explains why we didn’t want to drink anything from the tanks. Brushing your teeth with a very pronounced chlorine flavor is enough suckage already. We didn’t sail the Pacific though and had to refill the tanks every 10 days, except during ocean passages where we stayed out for up to two weeks using less than 20% of our tank capacity. We didn’t try catching rainwater and it wouldn’t have provided enough anyway since most of our trip was in areas that were too arid.

Now we have a boat with a 100 liter/h watermaker and we use ridiculous amounts of it, something like nearly 5 times as much. It’s all solar powered. During ocean crossings the same conservation rules as before are applied though. Whenever possible we make our own drinking water, straight from the watermaker into glass bottles without passing through the tanks. We add minerals to it to make it palatable (and to get those minerals in our bodies). We still buy bottled water when it’s not possible to make our own. Obviously we probably won’t ever feel the need to try to catch rainwater on this boat, barring equipment failure.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

As I said, I only looked at DC watermakers.

Same here.

Rich Boren has stated he could substitute a DC motor in his high-gph Cruise RO system.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Same here.

Rich Boren has stated he could substitute a DC motor in his high-gph Cruise RO system.

Of course you could, the pump slides on the motor shaft and is held to the motor with four bolts, off the shelf commonly available stuff.
But you would be crazy to do it, it would require something like 100 amps out of the bank, and how are you going to recharge it, and how big a bank do you have that drawing 100+ amps isn’t bad for it?
Way better off leaving it AC powered and if you have to power it from your bank, crank you motor and let you alternator help but run the thing from an inverter, or I believe it was sort of designed to be run off of a Honda generator anyway.
Then look at where you will be mounting the pump and see how far away that is from your bank, and figure out wire size for 100+ amp load at 3% voltage drop, seriously big cables.
It’s not a silent pump so you don’t want it inside of living space if possible, plus of course it pumps salt water at very high pressure, so I don’t want it inside of living space, or near my electrical panel or electronics. Which kind of leaves the Lazarette for most boats, and that is often quite a distance for a DC cable run.
Mine is AC, and I believe I ran 12 Ga wire.

[a64pilot]

When looking at Watermakers, I sort of decided that if DC, that left me with a Spectra as the most logical choice, cause if DC, I needed the most efficient system possible, cause what sense does it make to run a DC Watermaker, but have to run a generator to recharge the battery bank or run it when making water so your battery charger can keep up?

I had already decided on having a generator, once or if you make that decision, that is when a Cruise RO makes sense, but to try to run it off of a battery bank with the idea of recharging with Solar and wind is foolish.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But you would be crazy to do it, it would require something like 100 amps out of the bank

I already stated no watermaking energy will be pulled from the bank, certainly nothing to do with renewable inputs.

Dino juice power only, 100A not a problem.

The energy efficient units don't seem to get up to 20-30 gph, which is the metric I'm after - minimum runtime per week.

40 would be even better.

[a64pilot]

That’s right, your going to build the big DC generator.
Didn’t think it was for you. There is a 40 gl an hour Cruise RO too of course. It is a higher output pump and a bigger motor, pump is same with a different crankshaft I think? Motor gets big enough so that a Honda won’t drive it.
I was going to get one, Rich talked me out of it.
I too initially thought of a DC generator and then eventually realized the AC and DC are so easily converted back and forth now that the gain isn’t there, and for high amp loads AC requires so much smaller wiring that it’s a huge difference, DC is fine for a fridge etc, but pull much more power than that and AC begins to make more sense.
The Prius for example runs its drive motors and air conditioner off of AC current that comes from a BIG ole inverter, not DC direct. They found it more efficient to invert DC to AC than go DC direct.
Tesla was right, Edison was wrong

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

First, note that "Fiji" and "Tonga" are not islands, but groups of islands with distinct water capacity.


There are effectively two types of islands in the Pacific: mountainous and atoll.



You can plan on atolls having very limited water.


Mountainous islands typically have water- plenty of water. However, many of them have a dry side and a wet side, so the water you want may be on the other side, which may be far away and/or unsafe to moor or land. So it's possible to be dry and burned while watching it rain on the other side of mountains and you can't get to the rain.


Municipal and village (cistern) water can contain bad stuff. Luckily, you're in the Pacific. Carry aboard clear plastic bottles/jugs (clear, not milky white) fill 'em up and leave them on deck for two days. 12 hours of bright sunlight kills everything dead except chemicals.



Pandanus root, common throughout the Pacific, can be cut and chewed to suck out the water. Keep that in mind when you're on a remote beach and wish you'd taken water- it's often right at hand.


Capitals and major cities have water resources, even when there is a drought there's water to drink. Remote atolls can suffer very hard times during drought, so don't plan on taking theirs even if they offer (which they will.)



Opinion: if you're going to remote atolls, get a water maker.


Oh, and in the western Pacific, watch out for crocs if you decide to fill up your jugs in the river.

Great summary and advice.
I have met many cruisers with stomach ailments from drinking local water and thier tea tastes horrible.

Odds are you are motorsailing a litte bit when you need to recharge your House Bank from Autopilot draw..... or just relocating within the outer reefs

Look at some of the power take off units from your main engine for the HP pump and fill your tanks at the same time

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Of course you could, the pump slides on the motor shaft and is held to the motor with four bolts, off the shelf commonly available stuff.
But you would be crazy to do it, it would require something like 100 amps out of the bank, and how are you going to recharge it, and how big a bank do you have that drawing 100+ amps isn’t bad for it?
Way better off leaving it AC powered and if you have to power it from your bank, crank you motor and let you alternator help but run the thing from an inverter, or I believe it was sort of designed to be run off of a Honda generator anyway.
Then look at where you will be mounting the pump and see how far away that is from your bank, and figure out wire size for 100+ amp load at 3% voltage drop, seriously big cables.
It’s not a silent pump so you don’t want it inside of living space if possible, plus of course it pumps salt water at very high pressure, so I don’t want it inside of living space, or near my electrical panel or electronics. Which kind of leaves the Lazarette for most boats, and that is often quite a distance for a DC cable run.
Mine is AC, and I believe I ran 12 Ga wire.

Hi a64....I already know Im a bit crazy.
But I did asked Rich to supply a DC Motor.
In fairness, Rich tried to talk me out of it.

my reasoning
I knew I could probably run the 1HP motor off my 300W Invertor, but that left very little capacity (if any) for other things.
That means I must use my AC Generator to make water.

DC Resources
I have a large House Bank 1040 AH at 24 volts
I have a large Sunpower Solar system 1308W which averages 35 to 40 amps at 24V in clear skies
I have a large capacity alternator producing 110Amp at 24V (75amp at idle)
I prefer to make water underway where the raw water is cleaner, so if motorsailing this is better for me than running the Stbd mounted Generator under a heel to windward.

Negatives
Yes, the cable is heavier but not a problem as I was already rerouting and rewiring the main cables more efficiently.
I did need to install a heavy duty breaker.
Not sure if I will be drawing 100A at 24V as I have not started the unit in the marina.
Maybe someone can calculate from the Specs shown below for 24V??

Photos show my dryfit installation, from a year ago. It is all finished and connected now and we should be testing in September after the worst of the rains.

Everything is nicely installed, soft mounted in the engineroom and should be very quiet.

So.... am I still Crazy to have gone with a DC Motor for my situation?
Give it to me...I can take it

[Caroline Joan]

Thanks for all the great feedback.
Its clear that we can cruise the pacific and find/catch enough water to live on.
One thing we don't want to have to do is hire cars to get water, grow monkey arms for hauling 5 gallon jerry cans, and risk contaminated water.

What we have decided to do and infact have just done is buy a watermaker.
Cost was always a major consideration along with powering it.
We don't want to run a generator. The generator for us is just for emergency battery top up (not needed to do that for 3 years).

We use so little water that watermaker capacity is not a factor for us.
We don't need or want to live as we would in our house with long showers. We would rather be swimming.
Thats our choice and other cruisers/liveaboards have totally different requirements.

We are currently in Turkey and purchased a Katadyn power survivor 12v Watermaker.
It uses just 4 amps per hour to run
It produces a massive 5.6 litres per hour (ok so not much per hour)
If we run for 1 hour per day we have all the drinking water we require.
If we run for 4 hours a day we have more than enough for 2 showers, drinking, cooking and washing dishes.
These units sell for $3995 USD.
However because the Turkish Lira exchange rate has collapsed over the last year I was able to buy a unit for $2650 USD
As a bonus you can actually in an emergency run the water maker manually & pump it by hand (great for building up muscles).
If I install cleverly I can do it in such a way that I can quickly remove and take into a life raft
(assuming I'll have a couple of minutes after I've done the other essentials before the mast goes below the water)

https://www.katadyn.com/en/de/102-80...vivor-40e-12-v

For us I think this is the perfect solution:
Its affordable for us
We don't have a huge daily water demand
It 12v which we have plenty of as batteries are full by 1pm each day while at anchor,
and hopefully we will be pretty close to being fully recharged by solar while on a long passage.

We will still collect as much rain water as possible
Having this low capacity water maker will give us piece of mind when it comes to water.

Once the solar regulator shows batteries are fully charged I'll turn on the water maker for probably 2 hours a day.
I'll probably use every day or every 2nd day so as to avoid pickling issues

I know this isn't going to be the solution for most cruisers, but for us I think it will be just right.

And as for catching the rain water in your dinghy and having a bath - that sounds like one of lifes ulitmate free pleasures!

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

[Eder]

A buddy boat of ours has one of those 5 liter/hour jobs...he has been grabbing 10 gallons/day off my boat....I dont blame him.

[2big2small]

If you do use your 5 l/h watermaker every day or every other day you’ll be fine, but if you have bigger gaps in between uses then you need to back flush it with fresh, uncontaminated water (no chlorine from the latest shore refill, no dirt from rain capture). This means you now have to juggle with your tanks and keep one topped off with pure water for back flushing. And a single flush may require one or two hours of watermaking to compensate for.

But make water daily for 15 minutes or more and you’re fine. Trouble will only arise if you stay too long in places where the water is unsuitable (fuel spills, sewage drains, lots of suspended silt, etc.) without having foreseen a full tank of pure water for back flushing every 3 weeks. No need to pickle if you are present on board to do this.

[Caroline Joan]

We will be ok as we don't use 10 gallons a day!
Your buddy probably should have worked out a more accurate daily water consumption. I'm one of those painful people that records everything. If it can be converted into numbers, i'll convert it.

[Mr B]

I have this tarp to catch rainwater,
In a tropical downpour that 5 gallon bucket fills in a few minutes,
I pour it straight into the tanks, As its pure clean water,
I keep the tarp just inside the locker, Used only for rain catching,
It has three attachment points, gets set up in less than a few minutes,
I have 60 gallons in two tanks, Never even come close to running out of fresh water,
The head uses salt water on its own seperate thru hull,

I do have a Little wonder watermaker, Makes 150 gallons a day, 12 volt DC power to run it,
I only ever put water from the water maker into one tank, Just in case it gets contaminated, I still have the other tank, pure,
I drink water straight from the tanks,
So Im very carefull what I put in the tanks,

My 12 volt dc pump motor is dead, $800-00 to repair mine or $1100-00 to buy a new one,
So I have just purchased a 10 HP petrol high pressure water washer to replace the 12 volt motor and pressure pump, 4800 PSI at 9 LPM,
$320-00 AUD,
It will fit neatly in my rear locker,
It will need a new exhaust to make it quiet, No problem for me to make,
It plugs straight into the membrane pressure tube and I can control it with the existing pressure gauge and valve.


DIY Video's on youtube, Tutorials, Love them,
I copied mine off there, A home made watermaker for $1500-00