Induction vs Gas Cooking

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

ggest that having a generator avoided an extremely uncomfortable day.

Do realize that running your generator is making the problem of hot weather worse for everyone?

When other people run generators the vibration and pollution from it makes me uncomfortable. So why should you be comfortable to make everyone else more uncomfortable? I lived on the boat in tropics for years including indonesia, and I was uncomfortable and had to sleep outside on the deck to cool off to make it through the next day.

The best cooking is solar tube:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Large...d/312965086099


For cooking, neither induction or gas is very efficient if you consider where most of the heat ends up.

It is most efficient also best taste and the least work to prepare and clean up. I just stick potatoes and corn inside and 1-2 hours later depending on clouds it's baked. I even cook on days that are completely overcast in 4-5 hours.

It would pay for itself compared to cooking on fuel in about 5 months, but before I cooked on wood and didn't cook as much so now I don't need to collect/cut wood or deal with wood smoke.

[Pelagic]

Boat Alexandra Quote

"lived on the boat in tropics for years including indonesia, and I was uncomfortable and had to sleep outside on the deck to cool off to make it through the next day.x

Lol .... I think you just made my point.

You cannot hear my Northern Lights Generator outside a very well Soundown insulated engineroom.

The wet exhaust has a seperator so that you do not hear the exhaust bubbling.... and I doubt if anyone on another boat will hear it unless they strain to listen.

Never had a complaint or friendly jibe about my generator noise.

I agree, Deck mounted portable Gens are a pain to listen to at night, but if it bothers me that much....I just move.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Boat Alexandra Quote

"lived on the boat in tropics for years including indonesia, and I was uncomfortable and had to sleep outside on the deck to cool off to make it through the next day.x

Lol .... I think you just made my point.

You cannot hear my Northern Lights Generator outside a very well Soundown insulated engineroom.

The wet exhaust has a seperator so that you do not hear the exhaust bubbling.... and I doubt if anyone on another boat will hear it unless they strain to listen.

Never had a complaint or friendly jibe about my generator noise.

I agree, Deck mounted portable Gens are a pain to listen to at night, but if it bothers me that much....I just move.

I agree with Boat Alexandria if he's talking about portable generators running on deck. I think it's rude to run one at night in a crowded anchorage. Like you I would move (if possible!) rather than complain, but better yet -- avoid crowded anchorages.


And I agree with you about heavy duty generators. This is a whole different ballgame. Mine is in a sound enclosure inside a soundproof engine room, with a water separator exhaust. It is totally inaudible from outside the boat, even from the cockpit -- you can't tell it's running. The only thing you can hear is the very soft (and not unpleasant) rush of air from the engine room blower.

[mako]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...only 7% or something of boat fires come from AC power systems... Most electrical fires come from DC systems.

I wonder if a higher voltage DC system (like 48V) would be inherently safer than a 12VDC system. You would have 1/4 the amperage to arc and melt faulty connections, etc.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by makobuilders

I wonder if a higher voltage DC system (like 48V) would be inherently safer than a 12VDC system. You would have 1/4 the amperage to arc and melt faulty connections, etc.

The risk of shock goes up with DC voltage, and 24v is the highest which is generally considered more or less safe -- as far as I understand. A 48v system, as far as I understand, needs a different level of protection against shock.


But fire risk is for sure less with higher voltages, so it's a balancing act. Higher voltage means more efficient power transmission, too.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree with Boat Alexandria if he's talking about portable generators running on deck. I think it's rude to run one at night in a crowded anchorage. Like you I would move (if possible!) rather than complain, but better yet -- avoid crowded anchorages.


And I agree with you about heavy duty generators. This is a whole different ballgame. Mine is in a sound enclosure inside a soundproof engine room, with a water separator exhaust. It is totally inaudible from outside the boat, even from the cockpit -- you can't tell it's running. The only thing you can hear is the very soft (and not unpleasant) rush of air from the engine room blower.

I'll agree with this as well. I personally hate running my generator overnight because it's kinda noisy inside the boat with no sound shield (so if it's brutally hot with no wind, I'll usually head for a marina with shore power). But from outside, the engine room blowers are louder than the generator. If I'm sitting on my aft upper deck with the generator running, I can just barely tell the generator is running.

Noise from a good built in 1800 rpm generator is nothing like one of the portable units. No water separator on mine, but the water discharge stream is fairly steady and not particularly splashy due to the exhaust run being sharply downhill from the muffler to the discharge and also sized a bit generously. If you're off to port, you just hear the hum of the blowers (which will be barely audible unless you're too darn close). From the starboard side you can add the noise of water pouring out of the discharge a few inches above the waterline.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree about gensets.


I like the NexGen ones made in the U.S. -- dead simple, very compact, inexpensive.


I think all the main heavy duty low speed ones are ok -- Cummins, Kohler, Northern Lights. Plus minus this or that weak spot, but I love my Kohler 6.5EFOZ. Really simple and bulletproof. Driven by a Yanmar 3 cylinder tractor motor, at 1500 RPM


If you REALLY want simple, then why not build your own, DC generator? Why not drive a giant alternator with the smallest marine propulsion engine you can find? Then you can keep a complete spare generator head in spares -- can't get more reliable than that, and any fault can be repaired in any third world port without the need of any proprietary parts, circuit boards, sensors, etc.

I've narrowed it down to Cummins Onan and Kohler.

The boat currently has a Cummins Onan and this time I will be picking a unit with more kilowatts, that way I wont have to switch things off before starting the dive compressor (a Bauer OCEANUS) and when it's up and running slowly start adding too the load again.

It will be more expensive but I grew tired of the procedure on my previous boat.

Added.
1500 RPM and a sound box / sound shield is perfect, doubt I'd hear it.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree with Boat Alexandria if he's talking about portable generators running on deck. I think it's rude to run one at night in a crowded anchorage. Like you I would move (if possible!) rather than complain, but better yet -- avoid crowded anchorages.


And I agree with you about heavy duty generators. This is a whole different ballgame. Mine is in a sound enclosure inside a soundproof engine room, with a water separator exhaust. It is totally inaudible from outside the boat, even from the cockpit -- you can't tell it's running. The only thing you can hear is the very soft (and not unpleasant) rush of air from the engine room blower.

Seems like we all agree....except!

.....I'm not a fan of sound enclosures on the generator unless it is installed in a spacious walk around area.

When I first bought my boat, the northern lights Gen had few hours and you could only easily remove the one side to check oil and water.

The other panels were wedged in tight to ceiling and hull so it was impossible to remove and have a good look, or any place to put the sound shield panels

After delivering my boat back to Philippines from Phuket, it took me a day to dismantle and remove the sound shield and framework....

What I found hidden away was a number of small maintenance issues, ready to become problems and in general a dirty piece of machinery.

Spent a lot of money and effort sound proofing the whole engine room and now I can walk/crawl all the way around gen and it is spotless.

It also runs cooler without the enclosure.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Seems like we all agree....except!

.....I'm not a fan of sound enclosures on the generator unless it is installed in a spacious walk around area.. . .

Where did I say I'm a fan of it


I agree that the sound enclosure is a PITA in a tight space. Mine is not too tight -- I can easily get all the panels off, but even with the panels off, access is somewhat hindered.



But that is not principally the fault of the sound enclosure, it's the fault of my engine room which is neither fish nor fowl -- too small to be walk-in and too big to be reach-in One of the weak points of my boat.


A full walk-in engine room is near the top of my list of desirable qualities in my next boat.

[mako]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

.....I'm not a fan of sound enclosures on the generator unless it is installed in a spacious walk around area.

Spent a lot of money and effort sound proofing the whole engine room and now I can walk/crawl all the way around gen and it is spotless.

It also runs cooler without the enclosure.

So you're a proponent of heavy sound insulation of the entire engine room but leaving the genset open. Actually makes sense and has the added benefit of further quieting the prime mover.

Alot of the larger and old motor boats I've visited have the gensets open, no sound shield. Unfortunately, because these have been older boat they've also had horrible sound insulation. My 40 year old boat was the same.

[s/v Jedi]

Some points in general:

- for DC, 48V is considered a safe maximum, this is why so many 48V systems exist where high voltage is better (old school telecom). That was so big that it created an abundance of compatible devices like power supplies, distribution systems and battery systems.

- people mention 1,500rpm as well as 1,800rpm gensets. Be advised that these are the same class, except 1,500rpm provides 50Hz service and 1,800rpm 60Hz. The high rpm screamers have the same deal: 3,000 vs 3,600 rpm’s so noise levels go up much more for 60Hz models, but so does the power output. Example: a Northern Lights 5kW 50Hz model is the same as a 6kW 60Hz model. It runs 300rpm higher (=20%) and generates 1kW more (=20%)

- Years ago, I have replaced my 6kW NL genset with a new one of the same model of a newer revision. They added a tuned air inlet which reduced sound so much that I decided to remove sound enclosure as well as belt guard. This eliminated a big fan while still improving airflow dramatically. The alternator runs much cooler And the belt lasts much longer. Sound level is a little higher but I will add some dampening panels (self adhesive panels used for cars) to surrounding surfaces like bulkhead, floor and underside of deck and think it will be less noise than before with sound shield.

- When you have a 60Hz boat, consider making as much as possible 240V incl. the genset, inverter/chargers etc. This allows you to run everything cooler with half the current. Where you need 120V, like in the breaker (distribution) panel, install an auto transformer. It creates a Neutral so that you get the familiar 120-0-120 Volt service again. Spread 120V loads over the two 120V legs. This is very efficient because you effectively put 120V devices in series on 240V and the transformer only handles the imbalance part. Example: two identical fans, one on each leg means no current at all through the transformer windings. Three fans divided 2:1 only gives the current of one fan through the windings.
Many gensets can be jumpered to either 120V or 240V service. Be sure to check if the voltage regulator supports that by jumper setting as well. We now have genset, A/C, inverter/charger (Victron EU 230V/50Hz model that you can set to 240V/60Hz in settings), and water heater all on 240V as well as a high power 240V outlet for the galley in case we would need that for a big cooktop or oven. We opted to go for smaller 120V appliances so instead I simply created two dedicated 120V/20A outlets instead.

[s/v Jedi]

I forgot something important about the 240V/60Hz option: from shore power as well as genset you simply do not connect the neutral at all. This is a super big advantage with the genset because you normally can only use up to 50% of capacity per leg, meaning you require a perfect balance to get maximum power output.

By only connecting the L2 and L2 hot conductors, it is always balanced 100% and you always get maximum capacity. Any imbalance down the line (120V appliances) is dealt with by the auto transformer.

There is a catch... like always. You need a 220/230/240V shore power and can’t use 120V shore power. I have not yet been in a marina that doesn’t offer 240V but understand there are plenty. If so, you need a transformer to create 240V from a 120V shore power input. Luckily you can buy an isolation transformer that can be jumpered to double the voltage or even do that automatically. This way you gain the galvanic safety of boat and crew while you fix the disadvantage of requiring 240V

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek;3151891.

Added.
1500 RPM and a sound box / sound shield is perfect, doubt I'd hear it.

Our 3 pot 7.5kva Kubota based genset runs at 1500 rpm in a full headroom walk around engine room.
It did have a sound enclosure but I removed it for ease of servicing.
Yes, it is noisier but on a timber vessel with 2 inch planking, the splosh of the water cooled exhaust is actually louder.

[Pelagic]

Great notes Jedi Nick!

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

There is a catch... like always. You need a 220/230/240V shore power and can’t use 120V shore power. I have not yet been in a marina that doesn’t offer 240V but understand there are plenty.

There are some, fewer than before the ELCI/GFCI requirement change in recent years. The change led to insurance inspections which led to many system replacements. Downside is that ELCI is often at the shore end of the dock instead of in each pedestal (cost savings) but lots more 50A 240/125 connectors on pedestals that also have two 30A 125 connectors. I think the chances of you finding a marina that can support a boat of your length and does not support 240V are small.