Two anchors, one rode - best practice?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by meirriba

I have a windlass.
What do you do if your windlass malfunctions and you need to raise 45kg anchor by hand?
25KG anchor is not exactly small for a boat of ~12t. It is normal in my eyes, and worked fine for the last 5-6 years.
I have already stated my opinion, that I prefer to use once in a long while two anchors instead of using all the time highly oversized one.
Anyway - I read and learn from all the answers

Depending on rigging, you maybe be able to lead the spinnaker halyard down to haul up ground tackle. Have ueed that option on a couple of diff boats w big ass anchors and windlass issues.

[Polux]

I had already several situations with the anchor losing grip due mostly to bad bottoms. On that case taking in two heavy anchors can be quite a nightmare. Never tried and I don't want to try it.

I only stay on not good bottoms if the weather is not nasty. On strong winds on sand or good mud a top anchor, with the right size, can hold a boat on a F9 or even more wind, so why having two anchors on a rode? Just get a better or a bigger one if you need it.

[sck5]

Only on the internet is handling two anchors ever a problem. Out in the real world people just buy an oversized modern anchor and connect their boat to it with a good chain. But I guess it gives us something to talk about.

My second anchor (and rode) are in the anchor locker for the moment when the main anchor parts company with the boat. The third anchor is a knocked-down fortress that only will get put together when the second anchor starts being used. It has never happened yet.

[ddavis4464]

meirriba

One small anchor is the perfect solution. As long as you know for certain that a small thunder storm won't roll over the anchorage in the middle of the night. A big heavy anchor and chain is the solution to a fitful nights sleep. Two pounds per thousand is a good start.

On the two anchors linked together. If you hook two together on your lawn and change the direction of pull the two interfere with one and other. If you use twenty or thirty feet of chain between them they don't suffer that problem. Two big anchors, with chain separating them is an okay setup for a storm. A lot of unpleasant work for everyday usage.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by meirriba

As much as you wish.
We sail with 25Kg Delta on the bow, never dragged in winds up to 40Kn. Spare Fortress type of 15KG, which I may replace with another 25KG Delta. The
Several years ago, I have left the boat for a month on anchor with one 50Kg anchor - this will be 'humongous'...
I may change my current bower with a 30Kg unit, but would not want to sail around with 35-40Kg to drop and raise every day or so.

Before you trade the Fortress for another Delta, have a look at Noelex's thread...http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-126073.html
Personally I have never tried tandem anchoring, and have never seen anyone else trying it. If it was a good idea, it would be fairly common I bet.

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by StuM

What's the weight difference between one humungous anchor and two "ordinary" anchors?

Simple. My humungous 35lb supreme & 250ft of 5/16 chain is on the bow. The ordinary 25lb supreme sits on a stern roller with 26ft of 3/8 chain and 100 ft of rode.
If i need to anchor in, say, 60 ft of water and 50 knots, I'll shackle the sterner and chain to the front of the bower.....& then relax.
When the bower is back in the roller I can still reach the 3/8 chain and drag the little one back on board. Haven't tried it in anger get, don't need to.
The sterner's there so why not use it when off a cliff face in deep water on a lee shore.
Sure, going to be rough as hell but beats having massive salvage costs and loss of everything.
Why not?

[Mycroft]

I'm going to offer an alternate view from most in this thread.

Roger Hughes' article "Anchoring Once and For All" in the Jan/Feb 2016 issue of Good Old Boat magazine had a great method of using a second anchor. I had just begun my Pacific Northwest cruise and ran into some seriously sketchy and DEEP, rocky anchorages where that second anchor really added some serious piece of mind.

My primary anchor is a Rochna 33, while my old CQR 68 is now my secondary. My rode is a 300ft 7/16" chain. Using Hughes' article as a guide, here's my procedure.

If the anchorage is deep, say 90ft, I'll lower the primary until it hits the bottom and then adde a few more feet of chain. Then I'll connect my secondary to the chain with a short 10ft rope rode and a shackle. (The secondary has a second 25ft rope attached that I'll get to.)

Once the secondary is attached to the chain, then I'll let out the rest of the rode.

In such a deep anchorage as this, at best both anchors dig in and my swing is reduced. At worst, the second anchor lifts and acts like a kedge of sorts. (Of course at truly worst, all 140 lbs of anchors would lift and I would be blown into the rocks.)

Compared with tandem (which I didn't even bother to attempt), retrieval is not that much more difficult than a single anchor. Here are my steps:

I pull the chain until the shackle of the secondary is on deck. Then I reach down with a boat hook to grab the second rope rode on the anchor and run it up my secondary roller to the capstan. (We're still held in place by the primary anchor at this point.) After I pull the secondary up to it's holding spot, I unshackle it from the chain and pull up the primary like normal.

Even if the depth of the anchorage isn't that deep, I'll frequently drop the secondary if the bottom is rocky (like so many up here in PNW fiords).

I hope this helps answer your question Mark.

Bob

[Compass790]

I use 2 anchors occasionally when anchored in 40knts+ or waves. We have mixed chain/nylon rode & attach the 2nd anchor about 1/2 way up the 30ft approx chain. The second anchor also has about 30ft of chain. It definitely increases holding power as have used this many times when primary anchor dragged but only use this setup if you wont get a 180 degree wind or current shift or they may foul each other. ( Ask me how I know ) We use 2 anchors as we haul by hand ( 26footer )

[Jim Cate]

So, re your first question above: The same issue exists if you have two smaller anchors deployed on one rode... if the windlass fails, you still have to hoist around the same mass, and it is complicated by the joining of the second anchor. The usual method for such situations (failed windlass) is a long line with a chain hook, lead back to a cockpit winch. It is a PITA, but it works, and the difference between doing it for a 25 kg and a 45 kg anchor would not be so great. That additional weight is about the same as an additional 20 feet of 10 mm chain and most of us would not worry so much about that.

MY biggest concern about your proposed method is when there is an unexpected storm or other need for greater holding power. For your tandem method, you must either weigh anchor and then wrestle the second anchor and chain into position and shackle them together and then somehow reset the lot, or perhaps just shackle on the second anchor and veer a lot of additional chain.. if there is enough left in the locker.

Somehow just having your big anchor set in all situations, ready for whatever conditions arise with no further action needed... well, it just seems better to me. And, FWIW, to most of the long term cruisers we know as well... the guys who have experienced the unexpected storm at 0200 a few times!

Your boat, your choice of course...

Jim

[Mycroft]

Excellent points Jim! Perhaps I misunderstood the OP's question.

No, I would NEVER recommend two smaller anchors to take the place of a properly sized main bower. You're right, you want be able to drop a right-sized anchor at a moment's notice.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Stumble

... but holding power goes up exponentially with size. Double the anchor size and you increase the holding power by ^3 not double.

Back that up with hard data. I'm betting you cannot. All of the anchor references I have seen that are based on data set the exponent between 1 and 1.1. This holds true in sand and mud from 2 pounds to 10,000 pounds. I have also done instrumented anchor testing.

BTW, ^3 means 8 times in this case, which is comically untrue. For example, a 2# Mantus will hold ~ 100# in sand and about 1/2 that in mud. If rule were mass^3, that means a 35^ Mantus would hold 275,000 pounds in mud. In reality, the 35# Mantus will hold about 800 pounds, or an exponent of about 1. The UHC is proportional to mass.

Weeds are a different matter.

[Boatguy30]

I think it is generally blade area and not weight that effects holding. Also in difficult bottoms often only a small part of the anchor digs in so often I think this super oversize anchors now in fashion don't really help much.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by packeteer

Use the second anchor (or a weight) as a kellet

I have used this in a tropical storm anchored with breaking waves hitting the pilot house. The primary rode runs freely through a large stainless steel carabiner on the second anchor and there was about 50' between anchors. It was very easy to retrieve. I'd do it again.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I have used this in a tropical storm anchored with breaking waves hitting the pilot house. The primary rode runs freely through a large stainless steel carabiner on the second anchor and there was about 50' between anchors. It was very easy to retrieve. I'd do it again.

• Were both lines treated as rodes, with no slack and similar tension?
• What was the scope of the closer anchor?
• Did the near anchor set?
• What were the anchor types?

Just trying to understand.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by thinwater

• Were both lines treated as rodes, with no slack and similar tension?
• What was the scope of the closer anchor?
• Did the near anchor set?
• What were the anchor types?

Just trying to understand.

- Both anchors set
- rode tension roughly equal
- scope approx 9:1
- 35lb. Bruce on primary, all chain
- 35lb. delta on 50' chain and 3/4" Nylon rode

With a horizonatal windlass with wildcat and gypsy it's a simple matter of hauling in the secondary to the carabiner, unclipping the carabiner, completing the haul in and then retrieve the primary as normal.