Sailing Tactics on the Mayflower

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GordMay

An earlier CF discussion might be apropos:
“Maneuverability of Square-Rigged Vessels”
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...els-67469.html

See also:

“The Capability of Sailing Warships* Part 1: Windward Performance” ~ by Sam Willis
➥ https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_m...13_4_29-39.pdf

“The Capability of Sailing Warships: Manoeuvrability” ~ by Sam Willis
➥ https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_m...14_3_57-68.pdf


* The "Mayflower" was a smaller cargo ship, not a larger warship; but some of the basic sailing characteristics, and tactics, would have been similar.

Thanks, very useful. The Mayflower was probably quite a tub to sail compared to warships of the age.


From your linked threads, I found this very interesting:





From this post: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...tml#post766893


Shows a square rigged ship getting upwind off the coast of Finland during one of the tall ship races. Less weatherly even than the worst of our cruising boats, I think.


So I guess that Ping nailed it -- heave to and wait for favorable wind. That must have been the tactics.

[El Pinguino]

And if in the North Atlantic in the Autumn - heave too with the wind on the stbd bow - and hopefully things will get a bit warmer

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Seymore

Years ago, I asked a crew member of a tall ship at a tall ships festival if square rigged ships could tack into the wind. He said yes, they could, they just put all their sails tight fore and aft and so tacked into the wind. They were not anywhere near as efficient as our boats with leg-of-mutton sails, but they could do it.

Three points:

• They couldn't sail as close to the wind,
• Usual practice was to wear and gybe,
• And while "tacking" was possible, it was difficult, error-prone, and very different than in a fore-aft rig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlRbcTsm2rc

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Many voyages at that time were similar , often taking far longer then expected , it’s why steam rapidly eclipsed sail for commercial transport

Except for the China tea trade.

[Cheechako]

Interestingly of 102 passengers 51 died once they got here.... of those only 4 women survived. Harsh New England winter.

[Shrew]

The trip was From Sept. to November. There is a strong possibility that they were riding on the northern end of a Large Low pressure system which was also travelling slowly from East to West. They could have ridden the outer northern edges of the counter rotating low downwind with following seas and not even realized it.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Interestingly of 102 passengers 51 died once they got here.... of those only 4 women survived. Harsh New England winter.

Hence The Courtship of Miles Standish.

Standish's wife died in January 1621, Priscilla was the only surviving single woman of marriageable age. Standish wooed her, but she decided upon John Alden.

Historians decided it was mostly fiction, Longfellow was a descendent and claimed it was based on a family historical tradition. Longfellow was telling the truth in that there was a family historical tradition. How much of that tradition was true is hard to tell.

The bare historical facts are true. How much of the narrative was invented is impossible to know.

[tweitz]

The sailing diagram in #16 is quite interesting. If you look at their tacks, they presumably "wore ship," which we would call a jibe. On almost every tack they lost considerable ground, making the VMG even worse.

[Jdege]

Watch the video in #18. Even when they tack they lose ground.

[jmastal70]

You have gotten great responses, my only addition is due to having a membership at the Plimoth/Patuxet museum, which owns the Mayflower II. Their 2020 edition of Plimoth/Patuxet Life has a PHOTO ON PAGE 40 showing sail sheeted tightly in as she goes to windward. Capt. Whit Perry confirms the ability, albeit he has not done so in heavy weather, but asserts that the high aft structure actually helps in stronger winds.

[Shanachie]

Through one grandparent, I have ancestors from the Mayflower and the Speedwell.


I am always amazed that this branch of the family, during 400 years in the Land of Opportunity, had no more money than Niles Rickard did the day he stepped off the Speedwell.


My other grandparents were 20th century arrivals from rural Ireland. This branch of the family has several members who have managed to do quite well for themselves in a couple of generations.


Go figure.

[Jdege]

I heard a comic from NDak once, taking about how her Norwegian ancestors crossed oceans, rivers, forests, and deserts to find the one place in the world that was just as f***ing miserable as the place they left.

[Anchorage Frank]

I understood that the square riggers could not tack, but jibed, making headway against the wind by making loops behind them as they went.

[Jdege]

My understanding is that jibing is faster, requires a smaller crew, and imposes less strain on the rigging.

But that tacking is possible. Except that it's not so much tacking as we do fore-aft rigged boats. It's more coming full aback, then falling off on the opposite tack as you're pushed backwards.

[Searles]

A good story about squareriggers going to windward is the BrassBounder about an apprentice ship under sail ,but yes ,they did use the prevailing weather ,but the would drive to windward .⛵️⚓️