Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-07-2018, 23:20   #46
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,341
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

I understand this local rule pretty well, I think, but while it is easy to determine that a large container ship is greater than 500 tonnes displacement, I'm not at all sure that I could differentiate between say a 400 tonne ship and a somewhat larger, say 2000 tonne ship. As an ignorant yottie, those numbers don't relate to visual impact for me.

I guess that in such a place I'd try to stay out of the channel entirely, except for crossing, and to do that in as direct a manner as possible, choosing a period with no traffic in the channel. It is foolish to closely approach large vessels under way in any circumstance, but when forced to do so, one must obey COLREGS scrupulously so as to not confuse the skipper of the ship as to your intentions. Should a collision occur, it will ruin both skippers days!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 00:10   #47
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I understand this local rule pretty well, I think, but while it is easy to determine that a large container ship is greater than 500 tonnes displacement, I'm not at all sure that I could differentiate between say a 400 tonne ship and a somewhat larger, say 2000 tonne ship. As an ignorant yottie, those numbers don't relate to visual impact for me.

As a rule of thumb, I figure on 500 gross tonnes being about 50m long.
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 04:11   #48
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,936
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
As a rule of thumb, I figure on 500 gross tonnes being about 50m long.

500 seems rather arbitrary to me, but a starting point had to be picked and it doesn’t take a very large vessel to be 500 gross tons. If it’s sticking to the channel and has a pilot, no questions need to be asked.

In Auckland, as with any other harbour where ships are constrained by draft or other pilotage requirements to marked shipping channels, or traffic separation schemes, we small boat skippers generally do our best to keep clear and not impede any such constrained vessel. In some places local laws or regulations enforce that. It means that we don’t put ourselves in a position such that a constrained vessel becomes the give way vessel. Simple. No one gets let off from the ColRegs and the ultimate responsibility to avoid collision rests on both vessels.

Though in Auckland specifically sailing boats and other smaller boats spend plenty of time inside the shipping channels, as the main shipping channel snakes back and forth across one of the natural channels that provides access to the Hauraki Gulf from Auckland Harbour and one of the largest marinas in the Southern Hemisphere. But always with eyes peeled to seaward and to harbour for big ship movements.
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 04:54   #49
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
500 seems rather arbitrary to me, but a starting point had to be picked and it doesn’t take a very large vessel to be 500 gross tons. If it’s sticking to the channel and has a pilot, no questions need to be asked.

It's in line with NZ maritime certifications (i.e. Watchkeeper Deck <500GT, Master <500 GT , Master Yacht < 500GT etc)
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2018, 05:26   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Longboat Key, FL
Boat: Pearson 34-2
Posts: 3
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Lots of great advice. You’re probably overwhelmed.

Strongly agree with recommendations to take America’s Boating Club (US POWER & SAIL SQUADRON) ABC course and follow up with Piloting and other courses.

Best reference on the topic is Sweets “Weekend Navigator”

Wish all boaters would be as proactive as you are to learn the rules for safety. [emoji106]
Outeast190 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2018, 18:32   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 216
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
If you want the complete answer search this forum for one of the many previous discussions on ColRegs (Collision Regulations). To be answered properly and completely is more than a short answer to your question could ever do. Like asking, "What are the rules for driving a car on the streets and highways of the USA?"

To begin to answer, when there is some chance of collision boats will be considered "stand on" or "give way". Which is which is determined by the details of the ColRegs. Stand on means that boat should maintain course and speed so the give way boat can plan and maneuver in a way to avoid collision.

For example if you are overtaking (passing from behind) another boat then you are the give way boat and required to pass in a way that will not create a risk of collision. The other boat must stand on so you will know that your plan will be correct and safe.

BUT, if either boat does anything to create the risk of collision then it is the responsibility of the other boat to do whatever it takes to avoid collision and the requirements to stand on or give way are overruled.

Short, not complete, summary some stand on and give way situation but also note there are many factors that may overrule these basics.

Sail is stand on over power UNLESS the power boat is restricted in some way like deep draft in a narrow channel or a fishing boat dragging nets.

Overtaking boat gives way to the boat being passed. It is preferred to overtake a boat on that boat's port side, just like passing a car on US highways.

Crossing, a boat on your port would give way to you. Boat to your starboard you give way to that boat.


The above answer is absolutely correct and what you need to learn - some won't make sense yet.
The short answer is the answer given to me by Grandfather. It is one of my earliest memories.
"The rules of the road do everything necessary to avoid hitting or being hit by another boat"
He was known shot gun Stan - why - he discharged two shots "across the bows" of a sight seeing boat in the extremely light wind start of the second Brisbane to Gladstone yacht race. He was exonerated by the race committee through some obscure law - which was subsequently changed - of course he quoted Colregs as he was doing everything possible to avoid collision at sea!
james247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 18:12   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 49
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

I think the OP, in addition to the rules, wants to know about etiquette


- follow all signage: dead slow; 4knots max; no wake
- you are legally responsible for damage of property and or life attributed to your wake.
- don't operate a vessel near swimmers
- give other vessels plenty of room ... know their restrictions and plan for it, don't let the other skipper have to call for water because of your actions. It doesn't matter if he's power and you are sail.
- always be helpfull and courteous and there's lots more
- but especially, if you are in the shipping lanes sailing, regardless, might is right ... get the hell out of the way.
- Oh in addition regardless of whatever nation you are in, do not I repeat do not approach or navigate near (.5knts mile) any navel vessel whether anchored, along side, or under way ... especially US
T-Birder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 12:29   #53
Guest

Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 80
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

probably you should just do the coursework and learn it
Unregistered-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 15:10   #54
Registered User
 
BonyTony's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: .
Posts: 10
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipOfFools View Post
Hey guys i am brand new to boating, I was wondering what are some rules on navigating nearby to other boats and the shore? Do you normally pass on the right side? How far do you stay away from populated beaches and other boats?
.
Even in the U.K. where we drive on the left, if sailing, we pass on the right (keep to starboard).

Populated beaches? Go as close as you dare! Keep an eye on the echo sounder though....

Other boats? If they’re bigger than you, keep clear!

Remember the colregs. They are pretty much universal........

I’m at https://www.flickr.com/photos/nudistsailor/

Regards

Tony M
BonyTony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 15:24   #55
Ike
Registered User
 
Ike's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Boat: FL12 12 ft rowboat, 8 foot sailing dink, 18 foot SeaRay I/O
Posts: 333
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Most of the answer here have been very good and to the point.
Learn the rules.
Take a course.
Get some good books on the subject. I always recommend Chapmans because it is written specifically for beginners.
I would add one caveat. Once you have learned the rules, go sit somewhere your can observe boat and/or ship traffic at night. The darker the night the better. What you see in the books and videos does not in any way really prepare you for observing boat and ship running lights at night. Learn to be able to see the lights and judge the vessels type, size, speed and direction of travel. Is it pulling a tow? Is it a fishing vessel? Up here in the Pacific Northwest you may even encounter a submarine at night. If you are planning on going cruising you will need to know.

There is an old saying among professional sailors; Put two ships on an ocean and somehow they will manage to hit each other.

As for your question about how far to stay away from other boats, docks, the shoreline; that is usually controlled by a local or state regulation. But a good rule of thumb is 100 feet or more from shores and docks, unless of course circumstance ( a narrow channel, etc) doesn't allow it. So in addition to learning the COLREGS and the US Inland Rules you need to learn the local rules in your state. They are all on line. Just search on your state and boating law. Beware there are restricted areas, usually government facilities, nuke power plants, military vessels, but occasionally the Coast Guard will create a temporary restricted area such as around a regatta, or visiting dignitaries on a boat or ship. These are usually announced well in advance and broadcast locally on Marine VHF Channel 16. If you happen to stray into a restricted area you may be boarded, but more than likely they will just tell you to leave.

PS: On the water I stay as far away from everyone else as I can. Seen too many boating accidents!
__________________
Ike
"Dont tell me I can't, tell me how I can"
Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2018, 19:01   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Intex Seahawk 2 person 9 foot boat, Watersnake trolling motor
Posts: 116
Re: Newbie - Rules on navigation

Thanks guys, flat seas today at Staten Island, even though the weather channel issued a small ccraft advisory.
ShipOfFools is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
navigation, rule

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
newbie on navigation chile1 Training, Licensing & Certification 7 31-05-2017 14:36
Hello Newbie Here with Newbie Questions tbc0460 Cruising News & Events 1 23-05-2011 14:15
For Sale: Sailing Fundamentals and Navigation Rules off-the-grid Classifieds Archive 4 28-01-2011 14:07
Newbie navigation question.... DRoth Navigation 14 11-06-2007 07:46

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.