MOB - broad reaching or DDW, what is the best approach?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by roverhi

...


Lessons learned: Get something overboard immediately that can be easily seen, either a pole with flag or the Dan Buoy type, immediately. With any sea running you lose sight of the MOB almost immediately without raised marker. Hit the MOB function on your GPS next or simultaneously if you have crew. Kind of up in the air which is more important. Offshore you have little hope of finding someone if you don't know where to search either by a raised flag type of buoy or position on the GPS once you lose sight of the MOB.

In a resent VOR fatality, one of the lessons learned is that many GPS units require that the MOB button be held down for up to 5 seconds. This has been reported in other accidents as well; a quick press does not always record the position.


"The helmsman hit the red man-overboard button at the wheel, which records the boat’s GPS location. But in those frantic moments, the button was not depressed for the compulsory four seconds it takes to record the spot."


Press and Hold

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Good reason to check you don’t have stop knots on the ends of your kite halyard and lines.

On reading this article and thinking about it for about 8 seconds I agree that it’s the best course of action. Worrying about loosing an expensive sail in a MOB situation is like wondering if the airline will give you a refund when your plane is in an uncontrolled dive.

This tactic gets you headed back upwind as soon as possible. I suppose if your asym has a smoothly functioning sock that bringing it down might be almost as quick, but seconds count.

+1
I think losing the spinnaker overboard is the only realistic solution.

We practice dousing the spinnaker single handed and it is a risky maneuver even without the pressure of a real MOB situation. Besides, it exposes the remaining crew with having to deal with a challenging sail on her own while running from bow to cockpit several time. If things go wrong, then it can be a real mess and even prevent bringing the boat back in a timely fashion. Even if somehow it is executed flawlessly, there is no way to complete it before the boat is several hundred yards from the MOB.

The maneuver of rescuing the MOB with the spinnaker up looks good on paper, but seems unrealistic to me. Chances that things go very wrong are very high and the last thing you want to end up with is a spinnaker out of control while in the vicinity of the MOB.

So the only option in my opinion is releasing or cutting the spinnaker sheets, then cutting or releasing the tack line, then the halyard (in that order, which should maximize the likelihood that the spinnaker lands in the water away from the boat). Yes, there has to be a rule that there are no knots on those lines, but if practical I would cut the tack line because there is a chance that it gets snugged somewhere if you just release it.

[Dougtiff]

As we all know, the problem is losing sight of the person in the water, however the party in the water can see the boat, i,e, , the mast, sail, masthead light, so i have a water proof vhf radio and a laser attached to my inflatable life vest, this way, i can direct the mother ship back to my location, simple, not much that can fail.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

As we all know, the problem is losing sight of the person in the water, however the party in the water can see the boat, i,e, , the mast, sail, masthead light, so i have a water proof vhf radio and a laser attached to my inflatable life vest, this way, i can direct the mother ship back to my location, simple, not much that can fail.

The handheld VHF is a good thing to have, especially if it has DSC and a GPS.


However, if you can only have one device when you go over the side, let it be an AIS MOB beacon!! That's the killer app for the terrifying job of finding the victim. Don't leave home without it!

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In a resent VOR fatality, one of the lessons learned is that many GPS units require that the MOB button be held down for up to 5 seconds. This has been reported in other accidents as well; a quick press does not always record the position.


"The helmsman hit the red man-overboard button at the wheel, which records the boat’s GPS location. But in those frantic moments, the button was not depressed for the compulsory four seconds it takes to record the spot."


Press and Hold

There are (and will be) many threads on finding and recovering MOB.
I have started this thread to discuss sailing techniques in particular point of sail to come back to an MOB.
Please do not take offence...

[dptconst]

In such conditions, ie short handed, downwind, significant wind, spinnaker or double head sails, prevention is the key. While cutting the spinnaker loose is one option as stated above, Jack lines and clipped in harness might be good policy for this situation. Ounce of prevention beats pound of cure.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by meirriba

There are (and will be) many threads on finding and recovering MOB.
I have started this thread to discuss sailing techniques in particular point of sail to come back to an MOB.
Please do not take offence...

Exactly. Welcome to thread drift in open forums .


In fact, pressing MOB is probably the first step in everyone's downwind recovery procedure, so it is on-topic. What I brought up, the pros didn't know.


Good thread, but hardly the first one either.

[rbk]

I spent many years paddling white water and I haven't seen many here mention throw bags. While you have to see someone go over and react fast, with some practice you can lay a line across a person out to 100' pretty easy (50' and 75' are most common but 100' are available but harder to source and takes more practice to throw but worth the effort) . This allows you to get close without getting 'on' them, even allowing a hove to with the MOB drifting and final retrieval by throw bag. Its better to dunk the bag and get it wet, you can throw it farther and you'd be surprised how accurate you can be.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rbk

I spent many years paddling white water and I haven't seen many here mention throw bags. While you have to see someone go over and react fast, with some practice you can lay a line across a person out to 100' pretty easy (50' and 75' are most common but 100' are available but harder to source and takes more practice to throw but worth the effort) . This allows you to get close without getting 'on' them, even allowing a hove to with the MOB drifting and final retrieval by throw bag. Its better to dunk the bag and get it wet, you can throw it farther and you'd be surprised how accurate you can be.

Absolutely agree


I keep a couple of 30 meter ones with lead weights in the ends, on the pushpit.


You might not strictly need one on a sailboat with plenty of ropes lying around -- if you can quickly tie a monkey's fist in one of them.


But the part of MOB recovery which involves getting a line to them is much neglected. If you practice with real people in the water, this will be underlined in your mind.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by rbk

I spent many years paddling white water and I haven't seen many here mention throw bags. While you have to see someone go over and react fast, with some practice you can lay a line across a person out to 100' pretty easy (50' and 75' are most common but 100' are available but harder to source and takes more practice to throw but worth the effort) . This allows you to get close without getting 'on' them, even allowing a hove to with the MOB drifting and final retrieval by throw bag. Its better to dunk the bag and get it wet, you can throw it farther and you'd be surprised how accurate you can be.

Good point I have one for my kayak.
A buoyant Line is a basic requirement for my sailboat I have one but it’s not in a throw bag.
I also have a life sling.

[Uricanejack]

The OP’s original question was about what Sailing technique to use.
The quick stop is fashionable now from what I read. But has the distinct disadvantage when sailing down wind, you end up down wind of the casualty.

The relative merits or disadvantages of any methods are eliminated by not having practiced. Any methods you have practiced will be more likley to work.

I personaly like the older fashioned beam reach, take or gybe to beam reach then sail back to the casualty.
Mainly because I have practiced it many times so I am pretty confident I can get it to work out. Which doesn’t mean I don’t use the quick stop.

Just if sailing down wind I can imeadiatly come up to a beam reach, tack when I have things under control and return on a beam reach without ending up down wind of the casualty.
Turning back up into the wind I can drop the spinnaker or cruising shut. Though this is not something I have practiced.

So much for sailing, I would also recommend starting the engine right away. Though some would argue particularly with spinnakers the risk of a line round the prop is real.

The real difficulty will be getting the casualty back on board. The chances are pretty high they will not be able to help themselves.

So for my MOB procedure Mayday call is first thing on the list. The radio is right by the GPS mayday,position, mob, vessel name not the official order but I figured get help coming, where to come, why to come then who we are is better.
Pressing the button on GPS good point for reference.

So my check list or procedure.

If you see some one fall.
Yell MOB,
call. Skipper and all crew on deck.
throw dan buoy and or life ring.
Turn into wind to beam reach or imediate heave to
Keep pointing at MOB.
Call Mayday. Three long blasts , if possible
Stand by engine, turn it on.
Get sorted on deck, sails etc trimmed, luffed, furled or dropped as required.
Gybe or tack to sail back to casualty.
Deploy life sling.
I like to heave to abeam the casualty. My theory keeps lines and sails from banging and under control. If I need a bit of help from the engine I have less risk of fouling prop.

Defenite disadvantage or danger. I am now drifting down on the casualty in the water.
Probably well heeled over.
Even so the possibility of drifting over the casualty is high.
I may rethink this to a more power boat plan.
Approach from down wind under motor.

I have two spiniker haliards, plan includes ussing haliard to lift casualty. Preferably ussing the life sling which I can tow round the casualty if the casualty can heal them self.
If not my life jacket have harnesses.
I am also prepared to launch a life raft and tow it round the casualty if required we can pull the casualty into the raft more easily than on to the deck.

All set and done. It’s better not to be a MOB.
My fall prevention or MOB prevention plan is more important than my recovery plan.

Well all the above only applies if you have not lost sight of the casualty.

What if you didn’t see the MOB go over? Or if the crew in deck have lost sight of the MOB.
Same as above for a lot of my list on what to do.
Call or Yell MOB.
Skipper and all crew on deck.
Imediate tack or gybe to come right around if possible right back into my wake.
Mayday call same as above.
Dan buoy or life ring as datum same as abouve.
Every one is a lookout. Until we sight the casualty.
Sail if I can while I can see it straight back along my wake on reciprocal course.
If not short tacks back and forth across my wake.
Same for getting deck ready, trim, luff furl drop sails as required.
Stand by engine, turn it on ready for use.
It may be required right away to motorvalong my wake.you will loose the visable wake soon. My best chance to find thevcasulty is searching along my wake until I lose it.
If sighted back to previous MOB plan.

If not the mayday and initial position is vital. How long since MOB was seen.
What was our course and speed.
You will most likle need a full time person on radio communications at this point.
So if you are on your own.
You have a hell of a lot to do. You need help.

Choose a search pattern.
I would probably choose to do a grid back Along our reciprocal course.
In any case we will need help to find a missing mob.

[jmorrison146]

A good practice would be to discuss a plan for the current course with current crew under current conditions. After a maneuver and settling down on the new course, lead a discussion of the plan should someone go overboard. Review the plan and roles/responsibilities. End the discussion with emphasis on prevention.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Absolutely agree


I keep a couple of 30 meter ones with lead weights in the ends, on the pushpit.


You might not strictly need one on a sailboat with plenty of ropes lying around -- if you can quickly tie a monkey's fist in one of them.

But the part of MOB recovery which involves getting a line to them is much neglected. If you practice with real people in the water, this will be underlined in your mind.

You really should get proper throw bags in place of lines with lead weights. They grow better, are high vis, float, and are kept out of the sun in a nice bag that gives the end a good weight without the threat of clobbering someone. Most come with a clip/buckle that you can snap onto rails or lifelines.

[jmorrison146]

[Blue2cat]

I am surprised that we have departed so far from the traditional figure 8 and complete full circle approach. The panic is based on the feeling that you will lose the person no matter what you do so…. AIS, GPS button hold down, dan buoy overboard, portable VHF (I like that one a lot if they are not unconscious (throwing stuff overboard suggests you didn’t have one of these options, but may have lots of more expensive stuff, get a dan buoy!) The unknown is the weather so identify, use a spotter if crew enough, now you have time to come about no matter how far you travel within reason. In heavy weather your engine WILL NOT HELP under 40 hp, you need some sail. My multi has two yanmar 20 hp. Can’t even use them successfully to Mediterranean dock in a wind over 5 knots. So come on, anything can happen. Get the equipment that ensures you can find them no matter what. Then panic is less and options are much greater.
Also learn a search and rescue search pattern. Take time of MOB, on return repeat time and estimate based on wind direction difference. Then start 1 min forward, port 2 min, turn again 90 degrees 3 min, then again 90 (completing a odd square) and continue 1 min more on each turn.