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RDW · 17-03-2011, 09:48

I have a 46 foot blue water boat but I am of only moderate experience. I am planning to do the Carib 1500. I have a Gale rider and I am making a Jordan Series Drogue. The series drogue will need 350 feet of 3/4 inch line. The Galerider would need up to 600 feet of line to get it two wave crest back from some that I have read.
That is a lot of line to buy and carry. I have thought about using the series drogue line strung with the narrow ends of the cones toward the boat for the first part on the line or the galerider to cut down on the line I have to carry.
What do you more experience sailors do?
rdw

Kettlewell · 17-03-2011, 10:02

My understanding is that the Galerider is for lesser conditions while the series drogue is for your ultimate storm, so chances are you will be using the Galerider more and first. The hard part will be to decide when to switch to the series drogue. Do you feel you really need both? I wouldn't plan on using the series drogue ahead of the Galerider. That sounds like a mess waiting to happen. I personally have quite a few back up 200-foot anchor rodes onboard with eyes in both ends so that I can create longer rodes pretty quickly. I used two of these once with a parachute sea anchor, ending up with about 400 feet out. I just shackled the two rodes together in the middle.

RDW · 17-03-2011, 10:15

I would be using the series in reverse so the cones would not be effective, just to be able to use the line. Having two devices is from my inexperience but some of the people that write and talk about storm tactics preach having a group of tactics not just one solution. Also, I am probably a little crazy and think outside the box as often as I can.

**estarzinger** · 17-03-2011, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDW

Jordan Series Drogue. The series drogue will need 350 feet of 3/4 inch line.

The Galerider would need up to 600 feet of line to get it two wave crest back from some that I have read.

Many of us are using spectra single braid line for the series drogue. You could use 3/8" spectra single braid - that would be a lot smaller and lighter, but more expensive. You don't need stretch in the series drogue line.

For the galerider, most people have a 'spare' 300' nylon anchor rode, for their kedge anchor, and they also use that for the gale rider. That will do the job for you on the Carrib 1500.

I suspect you have gotten the 600' length from us, and yes we have found situations where we wanted/needed 600's on the rode - but we happen to carry that rope for other purposes. I would not carry 600' just for the drogue - stowage space is too much of a premium.

I would also not use the series as part of the galerider warp - part of the advantage of the galerider is that to recover it you can just put the warp on a winch or windless and crank away - with the series drogue you have to be very careful not to rip the cones. But do you carry any other long lines you might be able to use - a spare halyard or long spin sheets or . . .

RDW · 17-03-2011, 11:37

Thanks for your reply. I have read and listened to a lot of your information, which is good. I particularly think your plans of trying various things until the boat feels good is excellent advice.
Would you mind telling me what your line inventory is in general terms. FYI, I have a 46 Morris sloop. I am sure I will not do anything comparable to your sailing resume but I also understand that you needed all your skills on your first trip. I am doing a lot to try to make up for my lack of experience.

barnakiel · 17-03-2011, 12:17

Hopefully you will need neither in the Carib 1500!

b.

speciald@ocens. · 17-03-2011, 12:35

I've done the 1500 6 or 7 times and not needed any slow down drouges & I'm not aware of anyone using one. On the other hand, I've broken two halyards - I carry two genoa halyards, two wing halyards (for assymetric spinaker), an extra main halyard, + the topping lift that can be used for the main. I also carry an extra headsail.as I've lost my 135% twice due to the head webbing wearing through. I think your money could be better spent on extra sheets and halyards + cleaning your tanks and polishing your fuel. Remember that you will put about one year's normal use of your boat during the Rally.

**Dockhead** · 17-03-2011, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by speciald@ocens.

I've done the 1500 6 or 7 times and not needed any slow down drouges & I'm not aware of anyone using one. On the other hand, I've broken two halyards - I carry two genoa halyards, two wing halyards (for assymetric spinaker), an extra main halyard, + the topping lift that can be used for the main. I also carry an extra headsail.as I've lost my 135% twice due to the head webbing wearing through. I think your money could be better spent on extra sheets and halyards + cleaning your tanks and polishing your fuel. Remember that you will put about one year's normal use of your boat during the Rally.

I agree. I doubt that 1% of people who have this kind of gear on board ever use it. Everything on a boat is a tradeoff and competition for resources, and to have TWO different slow-down devices on board seems like massive overkill to me. I would spend the money on something else -- there's ALWAYS something else. +1 on spare halyards, sails, sheets. Of vastly greater practical significance. A Jordan Series Drogue is all you will ever need for riding out storms, IMHO.

**estarzinger** · 17-03-2011, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDW

Would you mind telling me what your line inventory is in general terms. FYI, I have a 46 Morris sloop.

Nice boat.

We have carried three spare anchors and I carry a 300' nylon rode for each - these have also been used sa panama canal lines, and drogue lines. I also have, specially for high latitude shore lines & med-mooring, 3 long floating lines (two 300' and one 220m). And I have 2 spare halyards.

I have all that rope off the boat right now and I am trying to figure out how to slim it down for a cruise to Newfoundland this summer. I am thinking of going to one 300' anchor rode and one 100m floating line. Not sure about a halyard - I have never lost one but I would feel a bit naked without a spare one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speciald@ocens.

I've broken two halyards . . . I've lost my 135% twice due to the head webbing wearing through. I think your money could be better spent on . . . . cleaning your tanks and polishing your fuel.

I agree with the tank cleaning.

Hmmm . . . have you thought about perhaps you (or a rigger) should go up there and eliminate some chafe and rubbing issues. I have never lost a halyard or a jib from chafe. When we first built Hawk, I found some rubbing on both the spin halyards and the main halyard and I went up and made some modifications to the masthead that completely eliminated them. There is zero wear now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A Jordan Series Drogue is all you will ever need for riding out storms.

We carry both and we use the galerider much much more. If I could only have one I believe it would be that one. With spectra line, the series drogue takes up very little space - I actually have mine in a pillow case and use it in my sea bunk

**Dockhead** · 17-03-2011, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Nice boat.

We carry both and we use the galerider much much more. If I could only have one I believe it would be that one. With spectra line, the series drogue takes up very little space - I actually have mine in a pillow case and use it in my sea bunk

That's not nice, making me eat my words before dinner.

. I don't think I've ever met anyone who's used either of these devices in anger. And you've used both?!

**estarzinger** · 17-03-2011, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's not nice, making me eat my words before dinner.

. I don't think I've ever met anyone who's used either of these devices in anger. And you've used both?!

Sorry, enjoy your dinner! Have a nice glass of red wine for me.

Its probably just been stupid voyage planning on our part. I am told by the armchair experts that with proper weather information you can avoid storms

We also carry another single element drogue (a "delta drogue") and a para-anchor but we have not used either of those "in anger", only in tests.

RDW · 17-03-2011, 15:00

Thanks to everyone for the comments. It is very helpful to someone like me. I appreciate your time and expertise.
rdw

Kettlewell · 17-03-2011, 15:14

Several boats in various Caribbean 1500s have used various drag devices over the years. Actually, their timing and route puts you in an area where you are very likely to encounter strong northerly winds against the Gulf Stream or even a late-season hurricane, so it is wise to be prepared. Though I would say that if you are caught in the Gulf Stream in a bad blow you should make every effort to get out of the stream instead of deploying a drag device that might keep you in the current. Also, I have used a parachute sea anchor several times in lesser conditions in order to make repairs on things like a broken steering cable (which has happened to me more than once!). They can be useful to stabilize the boat if you can't steer.

**boatman61** · 17-03-2011, 15:40

[QUOTE=estarzinger;645501]Its probably just been stupid voyage planning on our part. I am told by the armchair experts that with proper weather information you can avoid storms

QUOTE]

No... your wrong... I'm sure more of them say "A fast boat will keep you outa weather..."