How OffShore to be an 'Offshore" passage?

[twistedtree]

I just read an article about an "offshore passage" from Toronto, ON to Oswego, NY. I wouldn't consider that an offshore passage, but it got me thinking about just what does constitute an "Offshore passage"? Is it distance from shore? Does "offshore" really mean "overnight"? I wouldn't think so, but who knows. Is it a combination of distance from shore with some minimum duration? Does it have to include an overnight?

What do you consider as the minimum criteria to be an 'offshore passage"?

[Cheechako]

Offshore=unprotected waters? Frequently, close to shore, at the edge of the ocean, can be the most dangerous... but then I guess the term Offshore implies.... away from the shore. Maybe 10 miles plus....?

[konakoma]

Offshore is an ocean leg where the destination is well beyond the horizon, away from the port of departure, like Norfolk to Bermuda. The great lakes are inland trips, as challenging as they may be ( I learned to sail on Lake Huron), and TO to Oswego is local.

[Cheechako]

So Hatteras to Lauderdale would be offshore...

[jackdale]

If you want "legal" definitions, these are from Transport Canada. The US has probably has similar one:

The four new voyage classifications are:

Unlimited voyage:

• A voyage that is not a sheltered voyage
• Not a near-coastal voyage, Class 2
• Not a near-coastal voyage, Class 1

Near coastal voyage, Class 1:

• A voyage that is not a sheltered water voyage or a near coastal voyage, Class 2
• A voyage that is between places in Canada, the United States (except Hawaii), Saint Pierre and Miquelon, the West Indies, Mexico, Central America or the northeast coast of South America
• A voyage during which the vessel is always north of latitude 6 degrees north and within 200 nautical miles from shore or above the continental shelf

Near coastal voyage, Class 2:

• A voyage that is not a sheltered water voyage
• A voyage within 25 nautical miles from shore inwaters contiguous to Canada, the United States (except Hawaii) or Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and within 100 nautical miles from a place of refuge

Sheltered waters voyage:

• A voyage that is in Canada on a lake or a river above tidal waters – where a vessel can never be further than one nautical mile from the closest shore
• A voyage that is on the waters listed in column 1 of an item of Schedule 1 during the period specified in column 2 of that item
• A voyage that is made by a ferry between two or more points listed in column 1 of an item in Schedule 2 during the period specified in column 2 of that item

[twistedtree]

Gloucester to Provincetown?

Gloucester to the Cape Code Canal?

Yarmouth, NS to Bar Harbor, ME?

Pt Judith to Block Island?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

What do you consider as the minimum criteria to be an 'offshore passage"?

For you and I; to Cape Ann cutting between Thatcher and Milk Island then taking the long way around outside Londoner shoal then the long way around Halfway Rock into the Marblehead channel past the red/green than shooting up between Little Misery and Baker's Island and back home.

And you have to do it all without picking up any lobster pots!

This will be a LOT harder than going to PT or the canal!

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by jackdale

If you want "legal" definitions, these are from Transport Canada. The US has probably has similar one:

So given these definitions, Toronto to Oswego is either Class 2 or maybe even Class 1 if you end up more than 25 miles from any shoreline which is entirely possible. Noticeably absent from the definitions is the word "offshore".

At the same time, in this case we are talking about a subjective, colloquial term.

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

For you and I; to Cape Ann cutting between Thatcher and Milk Island then taking the long way around outside Londoner shoal then the long way around Halfway Rock into the Marblehead channel past the red/green than shooting up between Little Misery and Baker's Island and back home.

And you have to do it all without picking up any lobster pots!

This will be a LOT harder than going to PT or the canal!

Yes, that could be called the Pucker Run.

Up until I read that article, if anyone asked me if I had done an offshore passage, I would have said "No, it's on my to-do list". But I might be selling myself short. I've done the equivalent to Toronto to Oswego (as measured by distance from shore and length of voyage) a dozen or more times.

[boatman61]

Working on Pantaneus limits upto 200 miles out is Offshore...
after that its Ocean... and I'm no longer insured...

[Capt Phil]

I'm with boatman1 as far as defining what is offshore compared to coastal passage making. On deliveries, the insurance companies would require me to stay coastal if I was the only licensed person aboard. As soon as I went offshore, ie., over 200 miles off the west coast, it was considered to be more dangerous (?) and I was required to have another licensed crew aboard. I had several discussions with my insurance company but they were adamant that their underwriters required me to stay within 200 miles of the shore if I was the only licensed one aboard even though I explained how much more dangerous it was with marine traffic, unreliable weather, crab traps and things like rocks to hit. That is what happens when you have folks making the rules who don't know the pointy end from the blunt end of a boat. Not only that but travelling north on the west coast was alot more expensive fuelwise if you were closer to the coast on a powerboat and alot more uncomfortable sailing north on a sailboat. Phil

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

I just read an article about an "offshore passage" from Toronto, ON to Oswego, NY. I wouldn't consider that an offshore passage, but it got me thinking about just what does constitute an "Offshore passage"? Is it distance from shore? Does "offshore" really mean "overnight"? I wouldn't think so, but who knows. Is it a combination of distance from shore with some minimum duration? Does it have to include an overnight?

What do you consider as the minimum criteria to be an 'offshore passage"?

This is a 120 mile jaunt across Lake Ontario. It might get a bit bouncy but by no means is it an offshore passage. You're only thirty miles from land all the way.

[sww914]

IMO if you can see nothing but water all day, you're offshore.

[MarkJ]

Offshore.

Keep going out till you are so far away from the coast you have no doubt you are Offshore.

More than a 24 hour sail from land.

When the chart doesnt show nuffin but sea.

When manatees start looking like mermaids... When U cant find a manatee, Boatman61 starts looking good.

When the beer runs out and the Coast Guard refuses to drop more.

So far out that all the Beneteaus have sunk and only the double enders with paper charts remain afloat.

Prolly nearly outside Chesepeake bay?

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by sww914

IMO if you can see nothing but water all day, you're offshore.

+1.
Besides, it's not the water that's the problem, it's the hard stuff around the edges.