Hatteras/DiamondShoals south bound in the fall

[phorvati]

I researched what information there is regarding this topic and wanted to provide some consensus and also see if anyone has any additional information and perspective with regards to forces of nature at play when rounding Hatteras in the fall.

For small boats ICW is option one. For bigger boats staying east of the gulf stream is favorable.

Unfortunately neither is an option for me. I plan to head south in the fall and with my full time job, my bosses don't grasp very well what it mans to wait on weather. Hiring delivery defeats the purpose of owning this boat and so i plan to reserve a two week vacation window around early November and utilize it to sail south from Rhode island to Beaufort, Myrtle beach or preferably St. Augustine. I can sort of float the vacation window as i can always go back to work. I just cant take two weeks off without giving 2 months notice. (sux)



I dont want to go offshore as boat is still new to me. So that leaves me with Diamond shoals.



Most talk about leaving Norfolk area and looking for 36H window. Window being light winds around 10kts or less at the shoals and just motor around RN2 and Abandoned Tower. Leaving New England I've been logging the 3 day forecast the past 3 falls and can say noaa is very good at predicting Hatteras winds 3 days out. Even if forecast changes while under way Norfolk is an option and i go back to work and save my vacation for the next widow.



As far as diamond shoals, Some say any N component in the wind produces steep waves and should be avoided. N wind can trap you if diamond shoals or stream end up producing rough seas as you cant really turn around. What I don't get is if stream does not really get to the shoal you don't have wind against current if you stay near the shoal. I get that deep ocean trench meets shallow shoals and can produce rough seas, but if current is further to the east why is N wind not good for going south between RN2 and Tower. For that matter why is NE wind not good for going so long as you make sure you are west of the stream. Is stream unpredictable in a sense that it sometimes spills over the shoals, I.e. inside the RN2?



Some also say Strong SW is tough if you plan to round near the Tower and R2 marker because once you round it there is nowhere to go, you have lee shore to the west or you are going backwards 4 kts if you try to go east.


Ive sailed the other way in my old boat in july 2009 and that was in prevailing conditions. but going south seems like few orders of magnitude more complicated, especially when fronts line up.

[caradow]

Well I wish you well. Luck has a lot to do with it.
Can only say I have done it a few times.
The last was a few years ago heading south and having an "excellent" weather window. Also had up to date data on what the stream was doing.

Much to my surprise after leaving the Chesapeake early morning in a dying light south easterly that night my crew woke me stating with motoring we were only making 3 kts over ground. We can usually motor at 7-8 kts in flat water.Found it hard to believe but true.
Apparently the stream does meander and can come almost right up on the beach.
In fact we witnessed several big commercial ships taking a turn to get into shallower water. I simply took the boat in the shallowest water i felt comfortable in and was able to increase our speed significantly. There was little wind, rain and decreased visibility that night.
As soon as we passed Hatteras. The wind filled in from the north at 20-25 kts and we had a great ride to Masonboro Inlet. Basically we were lucky the northerly did not come in earlier.

I really don't know how often the stream meanders to the beach but it obviously does. Maybe other members who have more experience than I could comment.

[Snore]

The good news is that you have several months before departure. Why not use this time to shake the boat down? Once she is debugged, consider heading offshore. Go Rhode Island to the mouth of the Chesapeake - she should cover that in 4 days. Then scoot on the west side of the GS. If the weather is not favorable enter the Ches and wait. Since you went non-stop to the Chesapeake, you have a few days to kill and not get in trouble with vacation time. With over 6’ of draft she must love blue water, but would be a bear to rake down the ICW.

The bad news, you have a schedule. If a series of cold fronts come through, or a late tropical storm, you will need to leave her somewhere.

Even if you hired a delivery captain, (s)he would need to wait for a window to get around Hatteras.

[phorvati]

That was my suspicion with regards to stream spilling over the shoals. In addition I see that any account of trouble is usually coupled with folks reporting that winds are not what they are foretasted to be. even on the very same day.

I am working the list in terms of what to replace. having kids impedes the progress.

[Captain Bill]

Your biggest problem will be one of timing and where the low comes off the coast. That time year a cold front comes through every 3-5 days. Prior to the front passage you get a strong SW wind, followed by a quick change to the NW after the front passes. I sailed the Pamlico sound and Beaufort area for many years and found you can usually count on at least 12hours of NW before the wind goes north and eventually NE over the next 24 hours. After that it goes E to SE and dies for about another 24 hours. After that it slowly goes S to SW ahead of the next front. As long as you are N or the cape SW winds are coming off the beach and waves don't have a lot of fetch to build. The same thing applies to NW as long as you are relatively close to the beach. Ideally I would think that you want to round the cape with the wind out of the NW as at that point it's essentially blowing perpendicular to the stream. Once you round the Cape hug the beach until you clear the cape lookout shoals. This will keep the wind off the beach even as the wind goes north and usually will keep you inside the stream. Plan on clearing cape lookout near R4. I almost never saw the stream more than a mile inside R14. That's not to say it can't happen, but odds are against it. I also recommend crossing Frying Pan shoals at Frying Pan Shoal Slue as that will keep you out of the stream as well. I usually leave from Beaufort and make it to St. Mary's inlet in about 2.5 days. I usually time my leaving right after a cold front passage so I get a nice beam reach to start and generally following seas while the winds are still strong and out of the north. I often have to start an engine because of low winds late in the passage. After Frying Pan shoals I head for the sea buoy at Charleston which is a bailout point. Just make sure you clear Cape Romain. This keeps you well inside the stream and occasionally gets you a bit of counter current. In November the lows coming off the coast generally come off the coast N of Hatteras, but later in the fall and winter tend to form up just south of Hatteras and make rounding the cape a bit more difficult. You really don't want to try rounding the cape in a Noreaster.

[phorvati]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Your biggest problem will be one of timing and where the low comes off the coast. That time year a cold front comes through every 3-5 days. Prior to the front passage you get a strong SW wind, followed by a quick change to the NW after the front passes. I sailed the Pamlico sound and Beaufort area for many years and found you can usually count on at least 12hours of NW before the wind goes north and eventually NE over the next 24 hours. After that it goes E to SE and dies for about another 24 hours. After that it slowly goes S to SW ahead of the next front. As long as you are N or the cape SW winds are coming off the beach and waves don't have a lot of fetch to build. The same thing applies to NW as long as you are relatively close to the beach. Ideally I would think that you want to round the cape with the wind out of the NW as at that point it's essentially blowing perpendicular to the stream. Once you round the Cape hug the beach until you clear the cape lookout shoals. This will keep the wind off the beach even as the wind goes north and usually will keep you inside the stream. Plan on clearing cape lookout near R4. I almost never saw the stream more than a mile inside R14. That's not to say it can't happen, but odds are against it. I also recommend crossing Frying Pan shoals at Frying Pan Shoal Slue as that will keep you out of the stream as well. I usually leave from Beaufort and make it to St. Mary's inlet in about 2.5 days. I usually time my leaving right after a cold front passage so I get a nice beam reach to start and generally following seas while the winds are still strong and out of the north. I often have to start an engine because of low winds late in the passage. After Frying Pan shoals I head for the sea buoy at Charleston which is a bailout point. Just make sure you clear Cape Romain. This keeps you well inside the stream and occasionally gets you a bit of counter current. In November the lows coming off the coast generally come off the coast N of Hatteras, but later in the fall and winter tend to form up just south of Hatteras and make rounding the cape a bit more difficult. You really don't want to try rounding the cape in a Noreaster.

So it seems a better option is ride a front From RI to Chesapeake and Wait on the new front which is not that long. Because beating into strong SW ahead of the front is not fun. Then use the strong SW to sail in the lee of outter banks and line it up to get to diamond shoals when it already turned NW. Then you have NW/N/NE along the capes of Carolinas staying along the 20 fathom line or so. That sounds like I should bring my wife and the kids along for the ride.

[phorvati]

So i got to Norfolk VA over the last few days. Left RI Friday night and got in Monday evening at exact time of day, making it 3 full days.

While I was hoping to avoid getting my feathers ruffled, it was not how it played out. Forecast was off in wind strength and timing, and around Baltimore Canyon were caught in Force 8 out of SW for about 4-6 hours. This was ahead of the front and as the low formed off Long island right as the wind shift was being foretasted. Lighter west winds were very late, like 6 hours late.

In a way i was glad we went through it because boat passed every test (besides the flying coffee pot). My friend said,..."not even a creek down below". We ended up with about 30% main out and nothing else. She seemed to take the energy best somewhere aft of the beam. Maybe broad reach. Windex (apparent wind)was basically directly abeam.

Seas took awhile to stabilize and that seemed worse then anything else.

[Sparx]

Excellent feedback, I really enjoyed reading how reality played out for you. I have been watching the weather closely this past week and could see what you sailed through offshore. Congratulations on a successful passage.

Good luck with the rest of your trip! It looks like great southbound weather in the coming week. I am leaving the Chesapeake Friday heading to Florida, running offshore.

[phorvati]

Originally Posted by Sparx

Excellent feedback, I really enjoyed reading how reality played out for you. I have been watching the weather closely this past week and could see what you sailed through offshore. Congratulations on a successful passage.

Good luck with the rest of your trip! It looks like great southbound weather in the coming week. I am leaving the Chesapeake Friday heading to Florida, running offshore.

Good luck and fair winds. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll do the same.

[AA3JY]

Where you the vessel that the USCG and half the East Coast where looking for?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.necn.com/news/new-england/Boaters-Dog-Missing-From-RI-Located-Coast-Guard-563996281.html%3famp=y

[phorvati]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

Where you the vessel that the USCG and half the East Coast where looking for?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nec...1.html%3famp=y

negative, but I can see how you would ask. I saw the search aircraft fly over us few times on two separate days. And I could tell they were there only to check us out. They must have gotten my AIS transmission since they didn't attempt contact or anything.
Now that I read a bit, i think it is amazing what a great country we live in. The fn guy forgets to keep contact or leave breadcrumbs, the alters float plan and look a the fn effort that takes place.


This was me
https://cms.winlink.org:444/maps/pos...allsign=KB1PIV