Arches, Biminis, Dodgers and Stability

[chriskilmer]

I have a 25' sloop for now, but of course see myself in 3-5 yrs in some tropical paradise in a 36 ft cutter, living the dream.



Watching the u-tubers and reading cruiser's stories, I see some amazing and beautiful/functional arches/shade biminis and hard dodgers built. The arches hold the usual items, but can also include solar panels, OB motors, dinghies and the like.



My question, does this become a stability issue once you are at sea? Especially in severe conditions. Can sailboats safely carry arches and enclosed biminis when at sea? I know you can overdo anything. Was just wondering. Would this include hard dodgers, even mast steps as being problematic in a severe storm?



Thanks for reading thus far. Just trying to gain a perspective on how to configure my dream boat and keep the designer's original stability in mind.

[Allied39]

You will not likely get a consensus on this topic.
There's every type of sailor on this forum from arm chair sailors to true blue water ocean sailors, each with his own experience and opinion.

They own own boats from blue water capable 25 ft 's to canal barges and everything in between. Oh, and you will get plenty of rock solid "I KNOW!!" knowlwedge too.

My opinion is that I would rather have less windage than more.....to a point.

I would never have a Florida room that stops as much wind as half a mainsail, I would never have Davits with a big old dinghy hanging off the back.

I do however have a sleek (and gorgeous )hard dodger and a bimini. I believe thats about minimum needed for sun protection, you will bake with out.

Yes I am likely to get a little wet in foul weather in my cockpit, both from rain and likely spray.....but that happens when in the ocean.
I would rather that than trying to deal with the massive issues caused by excessive windage....especially in the wrong place....
.....but that's just me.

I hope I have not offended anybody....but can live with it if I have.

[psk125]

What Allied said. Enclosed biminis are for harbors, to keep out the mosquitoes. Weather cloths - they're for using at sea.

[Tetepare]

A dodger is invaluable. Beyond that depends on how you use the boat.

[Minggat]

I have what I thought to be a pretty stout stern arch. Abosoutly love it. Covers a multitude of sins, including holding my solar panels.

It never occurred to me how that weight aloft would affect the arch itself until I crossed the Pacific. I could see the arch flexing side to side as the swells pushed the boat around.

I happened to have one ratchet strap aboard, and I rigged up a second piece of line to form an X inside the arch to give it more rigidity. I later got a second SS ratchet strap to properly make that X.

My setup works for me, but knowing what I know now, I would have redesigned things just a touch, like removing the transom mounted, centered swing down boarding ladder to accommodate my Hydrovane in the center of my transom rather than the offset way I set it up. The 3 point attachment would have been far preferable to the 2 point, and would have helped it clear the stern arch better.

Also love my dodgers hardtop with complete removable windows. Those windows live inside the boat unless i’m on a passage. So protect from the elements that they should last many many years longer than my previous sewn in dodger windows.

[Cheechako]

My opinion is all that stuff hanging up there is an issue as far as being wiped away in rough conditions. Of course there is some stability loss too, but... depends on the boat obviously... But say... 200#'s at 8 feet above CG is like losing 1600 lbs of ballast.
Everything is a trade off.

[tarian]

When boats were designed on the table for stability and movement and other major factors like windage and performance, you will find that large arches with 600 watts of solar, 5 antennas , a large set of davits and a tender , were NOT part of the equation,
But to be honest these people and thier boats, unless unlucky will not be going any were were that might cause cncern , i.e they will sail in good weather and plan their journeys to avoid risk.
hope that answers your question

[MartinR]

Yes, everything above deck affects stability. I am very careful with placing heavy items high up. But the biggest concern for me with arches and so on is windage. Both the weight and the windage tend to increase where you least want them, at the stern. Many contraptions you see to day are, imho, dangerous in heavy weather.

The reason we get away with it is that we seldom experience really bad conditions.

[Pete7]

Can't say we have noticed any difference after installing an a frame about 10 kgs (22lbs) and then a 10 Kg 150w panel on top.

The sprayhood and side dodgers are pretty essential for sailing around the UK. Its calm warm day before the sprayhood is dropped down. A full canopy with side windows is on the cards at some point in the future.

Taking the life raft in for a service and running with a near empty 90 litre fuel tank totalling about 100 kg did make a noticeable difference on a 31ft yacht.

Pete

[laika]

My preference, which i think is particularly true for smaller boats, is to have as much flexibillty built into the system as possible. For instance, we have solar panels mounted high and unobstructed on the radar pole, but installed with quick disconnects which can be easily stowed in a lazarette before heading offshore.

Cruising boats tend to have two modes.. passage mode and liveaboard mode. I think the best thing you can do is to simply keep the boat moving, thus avoiding the liveaboard creep and ensuring the boat remains fit for purpose as a sailing vessel.

[TrentePieds]

Listen to Laika. He sails a small boat - very small IMO - but a very solid seaworthy design by Robert Harris. I share his view of "two modes" - and never the twain shall meet. cos the boat simply isn't big enuff for that :-)!

Taking this to the extreme: a flush-decker with nought but the working rig standing proud of the deck is what you want on passage. Well battened down ( given sound construction) a flush-decker will shake off green water like a labrador dog and come back up on her feet after a knock-down. It might be without the rig, but such a boat is virtually unsinkable.

On the other hand, a "pilothouse" sloop with a mast-furling main is a danger to man and beast in heavy weather. I don't DO heavy weather any more ;-)! Far too much weight, far too high. I ripped the bimini off her to alleviate that to some degree, but it's too late in my life to rip the god-forsaken mast furling out and replace it with something less weighty and easier on the nerves.

So it all depends on where you sail and how you sail. As someone said, you'll get lotsa opinion here on CF, and it's YOUR job to pick out what suits YOUR circumstances. But of course, we'll always be here to argue with you ;-)!

There is no 'one size fits all" answer to your question.

TrentePieds

[KP44]

I am installing a high stern arch with davits. I would not have done this if I were circumnavigation. But I am staying (for now) in the Sea of Cortez where there is no ocean swell. This is on a 45', 16-ton cutter.

[stnick]

If your dream boat is designed wit a fiberglass arch and you plan port to port cruising along the coast, Thats the boat for you . If your going further away from the coast A
bimini full cockpit length SS frame and a dodger Of course. I have Solar on my Davits and one on my Bimini . You do in Florida have to treat the canvas once a year so its water proof.
Its all a trade off depending how you are going to use the boat and your level of comfort .

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Taking this to the extreme: a flush-decker with nought but the working rig standing proud of the deck is what you want on passage. Well battened down ( given sound construction) a flush-decker will shake off green water like a labrador dog and come back up on her feet after a knock-down. It might be without the rig, but such a boat is virtually unsinkable.

A flush deck is actually not ideal. Too stable upside down. A narrow coachroof makes the boat right itself much faster. But in principle, I agree with you.

[MartinR]

I think modern wide beam boats can profit from more weight higher up. They are far to stable as it is, having a relatively bad motion comfort. For catamarans, I think the weight does not matter at all, stability wise. It depends on the boat. Mine is narrow as it is, so I think a lot about placing weight, also because added weight is affecting performance negatively.

Windage on the other hand is something that is almost always negative.