51 Foot Danish Sloop goes Down Halfway to Polynesia

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Lots of danes are blue water cruising on benes or jranneau ( look at us 40k+ in a jeanneau)

Nothing wrong with that, I just always associate them with a Malö or Najad.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Ah yes, Properly I should have called them a herd, pod or even a gam of whales. But, it can be difficult to be erudite while thinking in one language and writing in another

My bad, I was thinking in Danish and writing in American.

A gam of whales is called a "Flok" in Danish and "Flok" translates as "Flock"

I stand corrected and enjoined from a repeat performance

The translation of Flok is not only interesting but educational!


Thanks,
Dan

[mikereed100]

When non-sailors find out that we are cruising our boat around the oceans the first (and only) question they always ask is "aren't you afraid of storms and pirates?" My answer is always, "Not at all, I'm afraid of whales and lightning, not necessarily in that order".

We see a lot of whales, particularly when sailing along the coast. From Kodiak to the Golfo de Penas we saw whales nearly every day, sometimes a lot of them. Greys, humpbacks, blues, fins, right whales, orcas, sperm, minkes....these buggers are everywhere. We have never hit a whale ourselves, but not for lack of trying. We had a humpback surface between our hulls off the coast of Washington. A blue surfaced at arms length from the starboard hull off of Baja. Twice we have been closely investigated by sei whales in the middle of the ocean.

This is not to mention all of our friends and acquaintances who have actually hit whales. A friend drove his fishing boat up the back of a grey whale which nearly capsized his boat. Other friends struck a whale while doing 14 knots in their cat. An acquaintance lost his boat and his life in the Gulf of California, many believe he struck a whale and capsized while under spinnaker.

All of this has made us a bit careful. Despite having a boat that is happy at 9 knots, we are happier doing 4 at night when we can't keep a proper lookout. Our bows are rounded off and heavily reinforced, with a watertight bulkhead 2 meters back. The rudders are behind their own watertight bulkheads.

As whale populations rebound we are going to need to be increasingly vigilant.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by mikereed100

When non-sailors find out that we are cruising our boat around the oceans the first (and only) question they always ask is "aren't you afraid of storms and pirates?" My answer is always, "Not at all, I'm afraid of whales and lightning, not necessarily in that order".

We see a lot of whales, particularly when sailing along the coast. From Kodiak to the Golfo de Penas we saw whales nearly every day, sometimes a lot of them. Greys, humpbacks, blues, fins, right whales, orcas, sperm, minkes....these buggers are everywhere. We have never hit a whale ourselves, but not for lack of trying. We had a humpback surface between our hulls off the coast of Washington. A blue surfaced at arms length from the starboard hull off of Baja. Twice we have been closely investigated by sei whales in the middle of the ocean.

This is not to mention all of our friends and acquaintances who have actually hit whales. A friend drove his fishing boat up the back of a grey whale which nearly capsized his boat. Other friends struck a whale while doing 14 knots in their cat. An acquaintance lost his boat and his life in the Gulf of California, many believe he struck a whale and capsized while under spinnaker.

All of this has made us a bit careful. Despite having a boat that is happy at 9 knots, we are happier doing 4 at night when we can't keep a proper lookout. Our bows are rounded off and heavily reinforced, with a watertight bulkhead 2 meters back. The rudders are behind their own watertight bulkheads.

As whale populations rebound we are going to need to be increasingly vigilant.

Years ago, I think it is decades ago at this point, there was a self reporting study about boat and whale collisions. It worked out to 10 or so collisions a year with 1 or so sinking, so 10% of collisions sunk a boat. Since this was a self reported "study" one had to know about it to make a report, I think the number of collisions were, and are, much higher.

Reading forums, there are posts like yours that mention collisions, and even in books and magazine articles where collisions will be mentioned as an aside.

As the whale populations increase one would think collisions will be more likely.

Lightning really worries me. Seen it up close an personal too many times and that was on land.

Later,
Dan

[RPZ]

Regarding rudders, in addition to a breakaway design and construction as to not sink the boat, why not have a tiller rudder back up? The mounting hardware in place on the stern and the rudder stowed.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by RPZ

Regarding rudders, in addition to a breakaway design and construction as to not sink the boat, why not have a tiller rudder back up? The mounting hardware in place on the stern and the rudder stowed.

This is something that I plan to do at something. I suspect that it's not very popular because of the storage requirements, and there's only a few off the shelf options. I'm actually designing my own system and will have it fabricated.

[jsanton]

Whales have really big brains and are very highly aware of their surroundings and the space they occupy. I had a whale surface just in front of my vessel, then beside me, then behind me.
If a whale hits a boat, something is off. We woke them from a sleep, or got between Mom and calf. Or pissed them off somehow.

[Cheechako]

Even skegs are being broken completely off by whales. The only solution I see other than steel is a long keel and attached rudder. A rudder unsupported at the free end of any kind will not withstand it.

Or I suppose a sacrificial rudder is an option. Transom mounted to break free without hull damage, or a spade with a "break fee" joint outside the hull... like they do light poles .

[neilpride]

There is no simple solutions, just sailing with another risk added to the list, I don't see the factories going back to full keel designs, although many future buyers will be scratching their heads in choosing a rudder.

Steel would be the most logical, but we are in the boom of light and strong constructions, steel has its good and bad things and does not fit very well in today's market.

Aluminium would be another option but I think one of these orcas would twist an aluminium rudder too, not to mention how expensive aluminium boats are and how expensive a repair would be.

And to make a spade rudder that breaks like a fuse, well, it is already done in the present, the problem is that many times the orcas push the blade forward bending the shaft like gum, or hitting it sideways or pushing it up, really little can be done without upsetting the whole design.

The most logical thing to do, if this is prolonged in time, would be for the builders to become aware and manufacture full watertight bulkheads at the stern, with another type of rudder back up in case the primary rudder is lost.

[nofacey]

Thinking it’s unusual to have a whale strike a rudder, more often the keel - but a spade rudder is the most exposed design there is. Still doesn’t fully explain why this hull broke so badly it sunk - would be interesting to take a look at how the rudder post was tied in.
- Does anyone know the make/model of the hull?

[neilpride]

Beneteau 51

[boatman61]

Not the strongest support system in most large +40ft Bendi's.

[nofacey]

Given that this was a Beneteau 51 - not the first time they’ve had rudder issues (check for “Another Bene with broken rudder bits” thread from 2015 on this forum)
- pretty well points to a known rudder post design deficiency for offshore use…on top of which there was a collision.

[chrisr]

it is orcas off the coast of spain that are attacking rudders

i've not seen anything to say that the sinking of this boat in the pacific was in anyway connected with rudder damage, and while it was the result of a collision with whale/whales, it certainly was not orcas

unless i've missed something (?) let's not get the two seperate situations confused. different problems...different solutions

cheers,

[blackbeard10]

Rudder ....smudder.....skeg...no skeg...steel...no...steel...watertight..still be fright......................Just set up your hydrophone and LOUD and play some Nirvana or Ac-Dc or headbanger music of your choice.... Should wake up the sleepers. Or maybe some nice classical music heavy on the oboes and big string bases. Research from the internet though, shows that all whales that breach are inherently head bangers!!!
My 2 cents