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arizonaames · 17-10-2016, 21:36

Not to mention a 12.5' beam. A Dodger is a must...

**Jim Cate** · 17-10-2016, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by arizonaames

Not to mention a 12.5' beam. A Dodger is a must...

Ahhh, yes, a dodger! Being flush decked, and with not so much freeboard, and with our (typical) cruising overload, Insatiable I was a bit of a submarine going to windward in a chop. She did so so very well, but it was, err, a refreshing and cleansing experience. We went through a couple of soft dodgers, but the wave of green water that sometimes impacted on it always resulted in us getting wet.

So, when we got to NZ in 1990, and found their economy to be a bit depressed, and shipwrights looking for work, well, we had a hard dodger built for her. Best single thing we ever did for that boat! Drier, safer, better viz, good to stand upon, and arguably better looking, too!

Don't have any detailed photos, but these two give an idea...

Cheers,

Jim

arizonaames · 17-10-2016, 22:29

Very nice. I have been caught out in a few 5 to 6' swells and a good dodger was a necessity. I also have been considering a short bimini. The loose footed mainsail is also a must these days. I had mine made with 36 at the head and STANDFAST on the sail in bold blue letters.

**JPA Cate** · 18-10-2016, 00:26

^^^^^For a while, we kept her racing numbers on her sails. That spinnaker was a 1-1/2 oz. storm chute, but with the penalty pole, it was plenty big enough for us.

Ann

arizonaames · 18-10-2016, 00:30

Looks great. I am landlocked on Saginaw Bay right now. I have tried to have her moved to Jax but costs to do so have been prohibitive....jimmy

thalassobiote · 18-10-2016, 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Thallasabiote--neat screen name, by the way:

A friend of ours had the prototype, and he removed the mild steel portion of the chainplates, displayed them as a trophy in the rigging shop at a local marina. They were lacy, if you fancy brown lace. Having seen that, we did the process I mentioned in that post, from time to time, and then, effected the repair in the manner Jim described. So, the good news is that there can be a fix--Carsten fixed his. But it is definitely a potential issue with the PJ 36 (Standfast). Another issue, at least on our old one, was there was no stringer to support the aft end of the keel. Jim eventually repaired that, in the water, a little scary with the angle grinder, that close to the water. Should you get a weeping leak by the aftmost keel boat, that is the repair you're looking at .... it seems the boat doesn't like sitting on her keel because of the lack of the support there.

I hope it works out for you. Although not fast by today's standards, she routinely gave us 140 mi. days, and one memorable trip, a week with the average of 159.5, not bad for a boat with a 29 ft. waterline!

Ann

Ann, Jim, your knowledge of the boat is astonishing :-)

About the chainplates, yes stripping the old ones and building a new couple is very possible.

This last problem you mention surprised me...the description is very close to another issue I found in this boat! Just look at the pictures. When I saw that leaking from the aft part of the keel I suddenly thought the boat badly touched ground in the past.
In any case there is what appears to be a leaking to me, a tiny crack where the occasional water on the bilge (the boat laid on dry many years) leaks down slowly making the nasty coloration showed in the pictures.

Your thoughts?
Does it look like the issue you experienced?

thalassobiote · 18-10-2016, 01:54

Sorry for the pictures. They are up side down!..
Here a link to straight pictures!

https://thalassobiote.files.wordpres...0/img_0863.jpg
https://thalassobiote.files.wordpres...0/img_1119.jpg
https://thalassobiote.files.wordpres...0/img_1120.jpg

arizonaames · 18-10-2016, 04:36

The lead ballast is covered with fiberglass and the bilge has a lot of steel that is prone to rust. I have plugs on both sides of keel that should be taken out when put up for winter to allow water to drain underneath sandwich of fiberglass. Ther is also a plug underneath the rudder for the same purpose. Conversely, you put them back in before launch. The boat needs to be power washed, sanded, and a good bottom coat applied.

**JPA Cate** · 18-10-2016, 13:30

Thalassabiote,

No, that is not what it looked like. We had water seeping in under the aftmost keel bolt.

However, on the inside of the boat, there should be a floor and two stringers, and I'd look Our boat was just smooth there, and it is possibly your boat was built differently. It is the site of a future problem if it is all smooth, and lacks the support to take the loads out. After the repair, the boat was much quieter downwind in a seaway, the mysterious sound of "things" working, a "gronk" noise, was gone.

Ann

**Jim Cate** · 18-10-2016, 13:59

Well, after a good look at your photos, I suspect that your boat is suffering from the same malady that ours did, namely excessive flex when resting on the keel. The stains are likely from rusty water, originating perhaps in those ugly chainplates, collecting in the bilge and seeping through the cracked laminate aft of the keel.

We heard of one other Standfast 36 (Arietta) that had the same issue, and there surely could be more out there. We fixed ours by grinding away all the suspect glass (and there was a fair amount... perhaps 2 square feet in all... reglassing from the outside in, and then sistering one floor and adding a couple of short longitudinals and reglassing over it all from the inside. All done with polyester resin, BTW. The resultant structure was very strong and stiff. No observable flexing when she was set down on her keel, and as Ann said, much less noise at sea.

It was a lot of work! I did all the prep and interior grinding, which was pretty unpleasant, but I hired a pro to do the glassing up. Oh... I also had a surveyor evaluate the job and make recommendations for how it should be done. Do understand that this was in 1996, and my memories are a bit vague on the details. I clearly remember itching a lot!

And at least on all the boats that I knew, the keel was bare lead, not encased in glass. I'm sure that they were all delivered from PJ like that. Again fwiw, ours never had any barrier coating, and never a sign of osmosis. The hulls were actually laid up by PEterson Builders, a neighbor of PJ's in Sturgeon Bay.These folks were primarily employed in building f/g boats for the US military, and I think used superior resins compared to run of the mill yacht builders of the era.

Sorry to be the bearer of this news, but you should be aware of this issue. It is not insuperable, but not trivial, either!

Jim

thalassobiote · 18-10-2016, 15:24

Thank you again guys...
Ann, yes, the issue you were describing is of a much more common, innocuous nature.

Jim, thanks for the description. It is perfectly clear.
I presume the fiberglass in the area was thick stratification, no sandwich down there. Can you confirm?

Just have a look to the great job these Germans did on their 36
Bilge/keel:
https://standfast-36.ferienwohnungen...olung_2008.JPG
site:
https://standfast-36.ferienwohnungen-rursee.de/Technik/
Do you recognise the area you reinforced?

If this was not clear the boat is still not mine. I am seriously reviewing my initial enthusiasm. I was looking for a boat in fair condition. This is now becoming more of a project-boat... yes, the whole thing fascinates me!

**Jim Cate** · 18-10-2016, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by thalassobiote

Thank you again guys...
Ann, yes, the issue you were describing is of a much more common, innocuous nature.

Jim, thanks for the description. It is perfectly clear.
I presume the fiberglass in the area was thick stratification, no sandwich down there. Can you confirm?

Just have a look to the great job these Germans did on their 36
Bilge/keel:
https://standfast-36.ferienwohnungen...olung_2008.JPG
site:
https://standfast-36.ferienwohnungen-rursee.de/Technik/
Do you recognise the area you reinforced?

If this was not clear the boat is still not mine. I am seriously reviewing my initial enthusiasm. I was looking for a boat in fair condition. This is now becoming more of a project-boat... yes, the whole thing fascinates me!

Re the German SF: WOW! What a fantastic rebuild. Wonder how much that cost them?? Very nice work, especially under the cabin sole. Looks like they completely redid the subject area at the aft end of the keel, and also the mast step area... both look very good to me! If my memory is correct, they have changed the support structure a bit, but I have no photos to compare with their work.

And yes, the area in question on Insatiable I was the portion between the end of the cored hull and the keel stubby.

I can understand your reluctance to get stuck into such a project... not sure that I would attempt it again (not at my age!), but it was a matter of fix it or walk away from our uninsured home at that time. And it came out fine and we continued to cruise successfully in her for another 7 years.

Good luck with your decision! (And I do realize that you are not yet committed).

Jim

PS Just finished reading (with the help of Mr Google) the complete ad for Boost. Appears that she was built not by PJ, but by a European yard. Thus, the structure of the hull in way of the keel may have been different from the start. I take it that the one you are romancing was a PJ, and thus subject to the same sort of issues that Insatiable I was.

Thanks for those links, I found them very interesting and kinda inspirational!

thalassobiote · 19-10-2016, 01:30

Jim, you anticipated the next consideration I was going to put into place: both the German specimen and 'my' SF have been most probably built by Standfast itself. Or a subsidiary shipyard, of course, but for sure in Europe...

So, yes, some construction details may probably be different than the PJ cousins... some details you described tell me that the boat where set up in the same way (some molds been used in Europe and US at the same time are often very different in the layout..).
For example, chainplates in soft steel with the part protruding out on deck in stainless steel (I wonder where they are jointed...). Or the weakness you wrote about, the same I observed.

The area around the hull on 'my' SF looks like the German (lucky) brother. With the same stainless steel bolt, different that the ones laying down the keel stubby (as you call it)...

arizonaames · 19-10-2016, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Thalassabiote,

No, that is not what it looked like. We had water seeping in under the aftmost keel bolt.

However, on the inside of the boat, there should be a floor and two stringers, and I'd look Our boat was just smooth there, and it is possibly your boat was built differently. It is the site of a future problem if it is all smooth, and lacks the support to take the loads out. After the repair, the boat was much quieter downwind in a seaway, the mysterious sound of "things" working, a "gronk" noise, was gone.

Ann

The stringers on both sides of the mast step is what I reinforced by welding steel pieces over rusted out old ones before they rusted completely through. Keel bolts were tightened by previous owner. I did not see seapage shown in pictures. Perhaps I got to that problem before it occurred. Boat has been only in fresh water only for 43 years. Thus rust was not as bad. Thrasher has won 4 out of 5 single handed Mackinaw races in it's class. By removing foredeck reenforcement bar and short stay, a previous owner fabricated a vberth. That makes for a better cruiser but now mast cannot be adjusted forward with tackle because there is now no reinforcement for foredeck. By modern standards, boat is too heavy and beam too wide for speed for todays standards but for stability, she is rock solid.