Hello! . . . Sail vs Power ?

[Highlander40]

We took a week to do this.

Left Milford CT down through NY city, Barnegat bay NJ, Ocean City MD,
Assateague island and the wild ponies and back.

Round trip 500 Nm never more than a half day underway. Plenty of time to swim and walk the beach.

Fuel? maybe 600 gal. Life experience- Priceless

[cat man do]

Look at the link in my sig.
And a recent fuel reciept from Sabah (Kota Kinabaku) that I saved.



Not much sailing gets done around the "Land Beneath The Wind" but you do see a lot of yachts motoring a lot.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Highlander40

At about 50 or 60 feet a sailboat starts costing more than a powerboat.

Something I have never understood is the unlimited range of a sailboat.
That only makes sense if you also have unlimited time to sail.

In the real world of commitments and jobs, a powerboat has about 10X the range of a sailboat.

Well, I think you're right about cost. Sails and rigging are d*mned expensive and you can buy a lot of fuel for what they cost per mile. You don't really spend much more on engine maintenance on a power boat, either, since you've got all the same systems to maintain on a sailboat. On a powerboat these systems are bigger and you put more hours on them, but on an annual basis that's just not going to make a big difference.

But you're not right about range. Length of a passage is a much, much bigger issue for a power boat than it is for a sailboat. I would far prefer to be in the middle of the ocean on a sailboat, than on a powerboat. You can really go to the ends of the earth on a sailboat. In a powerboat you're sweating over your fuel computer.


As to speed, until you get into superyacht territory, the practical, long-distance cruising speed of even a big power boat is not more than double or so that if a comparable size sailboat.

So for long distances a sailboat is way better. Ton for ton a sailboat will be more seaworthy too. Unfortunately not really cheaper, though, as you correctly point out.


But really -- sail versus power is not worth much analysis. It's 99% a matter of what turns you on, anyway, and to h*ll with the practical aspects of it. No one is going to buy a power boat because sails are expensive, I reckon.

[kb79]

here's a dumb question, but i think it's more or less on topic:

let me say first that i'm in no way questioning the seaworthiness of power boats. i understand they do serious circumnavigations all the time and i don't mean to imply that sailboats are safer.

but...

i've always felt much better knowing that i've got roughly the weight of an F150 strapped to the bottom of my boat keeping me upright. every time i see power boats, i feel like they oughta just roll right over in their slips

i'm curious if anyone has a technical answer as to how much more or less susceptible one is to capsize than another.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kb79

here's a dumb question, but i think it's more or less on topic:

let me say first that i'm in no way questioning the seaworthiness of power boats. i understand they do serious circumnavigations all the time and i don't mean to imply that sailboats are safer.

but...

i've always felt much better knowing that i've got roughly the weight of an F150 strapped to the bottom of my boat keeping me upright. every time i see power boats, i feel like they oughta just roll right over in their slips

i'm curious if anyone has a technical answer as to how much more or less susceptible one is to capsize than another.

Of course a monohull sailboat with a lead keel has a big advantage in inherent stability. You don't need a technical answer to understand what having a massive lump of lead far below the waterline does to your center of gravity, and what kind of inherent stability results from that. Good bluewater powerboats are engineered for good stability too, but it doesn't come as naturally -- the designers have to work harder for it.

[kb79]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No one is going to buy a power boat because sails are expensive, I reckon.

well said

[SaltyMonkey]

Cruising trawlers use booms with roll stabilizer devices

see

Boat Roll Stabilizers, Flopper Stoppers, At Anchor Roll Stabilizers, Marine Stabilizers

and this for when moving

http://www.primefabrication.com/products/paravane.html

just some examples

[CaptainWannaBe]

Excellent information from everyone. Still don't know what I am going to do. Looking at the sail boat this afternoon. Possibly a 37' Power Boat in the next day or so as well.
May just sit tight till after boating season and see what comes on the market.

[kb79]

keep us posted

[gosstyla]

Originally Posted by kb79

here's a dumb question, but i think it's more or less on topic:

let me say first that i'm in no way questioning the seaworthiness of power boats. i understand they do serious circumnavigations all the time and i don't mean to imply that sailboats are safer.

but...

i've always felt much better knowing that i've got roughly the weight of an F150 strapped to the bottom of my boat keeping me upright. every time i see power boats, i feel like they oughta just roll right over in their slips

i'm curious if anyone has a technical answer as to how much more or less susceptible one is to capsize than another.

Dashew discusses this:
DashewOffshore.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

He also has compared the cost of cruising on sailboat and powerboat. His conclusion, at least for his type of cruising, is powerboat is less expensive.

[SaltyMonkey]

Plus you get a fly bridge, a cozy pilot house when its rainy and dreary, a rear stateroom with a queen bed, no crazy solar panels and wind generators, large area to work on an engine, faster travel time to avoid storms and such nonsense, simplicity of just having one or two engines.

[Highlander40]

I like to sail too but for me and maybe a dockbound live aboard, the choice should be different.
I can't cross oceans now, got nothing to do with the boat. I just can't /won't do it.
So yeah a round the world cruise would be a good application for sail.

The problem I have with sail and to some extent with trawlers too is that many never leave the home waters and are under utilized due to the limited speed/range for a given time period. Then the owners get bored with never going any place new. Eventually the boat sits at the dock or falls apart.

This is why Thursday night racing was invented- yes it's fun but the sailboats get some use and leave the dock. Hopefully the owners stay in boating and marinas remain solvent.

For coastal cruising a sailboat makes maybe 2 kts speed made good and thats maybe too generous.
I can make 30 kts good to a destination and don't have to worry about being stuck in a storm. I can stay in port or make a passage quickly in a clear window.

So the issue for me is that some people choose sail or power based on some fantasy and not the reality of the boating that will be done.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by gosstyla

Dashew discusses this:
DashewOffshore.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

He also has compared the cost of cruising on sailboat and powerboat. His conclusion, at least for his type of cruising, is powerboat is less expensive.

Dashew also designed an absolutely unique powerboat based on very profound understanding and experience with sailboats. With a very different level of inherent stability, compared to normal power boats.

For that matter he designed some unique sailboats, too.

I'm a sailor dyed in the wool, as they say, but I sure wouldn't kick Dashew's Wind Horse out of bed for eating crackers. It's one of the coolest things which ever floated in salt water.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Highlander40

For coastal cruising a sailboat makes maybe 2 kts speed made good and thats maybe too generous.

. . .

So the issue for me is that some people choose sail or power based on some fantasy and not the reality of the boating that will be done.

A strange statement. Are you trying to say 2 knots VMG dead upwind?

I recently made a 62 mile passage under sail in 7 3/4 hours. No extravagant wind; just a nice beam reach in 15 to 18 knots of north wind with every scrap of sail up, barely even heeling, knocking back the miles one after another. It was so hypnotically beautiful that one crew member just went below and slept.

Boats rotting in marinas unused has little to do with the type of boat. That's a different problem. The boat is not interesting and will indeed rot in that marina if there is no interesting place to sail. I don't have that problem, and it's no accident.

[swagman]

Originally Posted by CaptainWannaBe

I see everyone talking about the cost of replacing sails. But how does that balance out against the cost of maintaining an engine and the hours of operation before rebuild or overhaul? What if you have to replace an engine (Which is something I hear a lot from Power Boat owners)?
I have a friend who is down for the summer because his block cracked.

I agree in many ways a Power Boat has its advantages. Especially for someone who doesn't have a lot of experience. As well as space availability and uses.

Sorry I've not yet got that power owner experience to give you a true comparison on costs - but even so that is going to be tough for anyone to give anytime as there are so many variables not least knowing what you are buying.

But please remember that yachts also have engines too, and in my experience a diesel that is used reguarly is much less likely to go wrong than one used infrequently.

Plus one should not assume the levels of 'experience' needed is so much more for sailors. If you recall the need to master navigation, meteorology, boat handling, engine maintenance - these are all the same subjects for both types of craft. Sure add on sail trim for a sail boat - but the expertise to drive a power boat in heavier weather takes some learning also.

Good luck either way - provided you end up on the water you'll not go wrong.

Cheers
JOHN