What It Takes to Be in the 1% Around the World

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GordMay

How billionaires saw their net worth increase by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic

At least in the USA, lots of people saw big boosts in their income/net worth. The politicians were throwing around money like there was no tomorrow. At the same time, opportunities to spend money were very limited.

Some of it was justified but a lot was wasteful. For the most part, those who kept their jobs and kept a level head wound up with a nice boost in their level of wealth.

With all the money flying around unlike typical times when a market downturn would hit the wealthy more heavily than the middle class, the politicians propped up the market because they were concerned (legitimately) that if companies start going belly up, they will take jobs down with them.

That said, tough situation with no historical comparisons to work off of and politicians largely insulated from the impacts, so they kept playing politics (both sides).

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

At least in the USA, lots of people saw big boosts in their income/net worth...

Evidently you either didn’t read [most likely], or didn’t believe, the cited article. [1]
If you didn't believe; which [so called] “facts” would you dispute?

[1] ➥ https://www.businessinsider.com/bill...andemic-2020-7

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Evidently you either didn’t read [most likely], or didn’t believe, the cited article. [1]
If you didn't believe; which [so called] “facts” would you dispute?

[1] ➥ https://www.businessinsider.com/bill...andemic-2020-7

Which facts in the article are you referring to [that you choose intentionally not to list?] ? The article was throwing around lots of unsourced "facts".

I saw a few places in the article where they lumped everyone outside the 1% together but when you break it down, those of middle class and up who kept their jobs, generally are significantly better off financially. That makes up a significant portion of the population [were you making the incorrect assumption that "significant" implies the majority?].

The real question is will the long term fallout of the spending binge (which is still going strong) catch up with us.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Might not be the majority but definitely higher than the average population in 1st world countries. Very few people are buying half million dollar (or higher) boats without a net worth of a few million.

Exactly. No shame in this. It's a simple fact that most here are in the upper tier of the global wealth scale, and as you say, those buying six or seven-figure boats are at the upper tier of our society. This easily puts them in the global 1-percent.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

- As far as the rich don't pay any taxes, that is a complete misrepresentation of the data. The vast majority of taxes are paid by those in the upper middle class and up with the amount increasing with wealth and income.

The rich pay most of the taxes because they have most of the income and wealth. As the saying goes, it's a blinding flash of the obvious. But if ALL taxes, including mandatory fees (toll roads, co-pays) are considered, there is plenty of analysis which shows poor people pay a higher percentage of their income and wealth in taxes than the rich. Again... it's pretty obvious.

The simple point is that virtually everyone here is in the upper tier of global wealth. And a large percentage of us are at the upper tier of OUR societies. There's no shame in this, but I think it's important to understand this perspective, especially as we travel beyond our borders.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Really, really, really, really curious who you stole your 'money' from? Also curious 'who' clued you into how the 'value' it has was validated?

Does it have anyhing at all to do with an arbitrary assessment? How 'bout if 'we' make those that use individuals for their source of income pay those individuals enough to allow them to pay their 'fair share'?

Such buffoonery is as ridiculous as believing that 'trickle-down economics' has any basis in reality. No? I suggest, then, you provide a prospectus illustrating your business model catering to non-customers.


Leaving aside the other clues demonstrating who's dictated your opinion to you...

Have you ever signed the front of a paycheck?

[GordMay]

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The truth about the American tax system is that it is slightly progressive.

The richest one percent earn about 21 percent of the income, and pay about 24 percent of the taxes.

[Bycrick]

As always, it depends on which slanted statistics one looks at, after carefully choosing the ones that support their personal beliefs. The bottom line is that anyone who can afford to acquire a boat and then not have to get up every morning and hustle all day to put food on the table and keep the wolf from the door is, by the standards of most of the world's population, incredibly rich. The incessant drumbeat from the left that anybody who’s done better than average "poor" person must have done it by stealing from "the rest of us" is just plain jealousy. And the "fair share" that the "rich" are supposed to pay is usually just "more."

You can see the statistics juggling in Gord’s post about people raising themselves by their bootstraps. It conflates inheriting money with marrying money. Sort of insinuating that anybody who didn’t start by begging on the street somehow got an unfair leg up.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The rich pay most of the taxes because they have most of the income and wealth. As the saying goes, it's a blinding flash of the obvious. But if ALL taxes, including mandatory fees (toll roads, co-pays) are considered, there is plenty of analysis which shows poor people pay a higher percentage of their income and wealth in taxes than the rich. Again... it's pretty obvious.

The simple point is that virtually everyone here is in the upper tier of global wealth. And a large percentage of us are at the upper tier of OUR societies. There's no shame in this, but I think it's important to understand this perspective, especially as we travel beyond our borders.

Agreed it's obvious and nothing to be ashamed of.

As Gord's graph shows, relative to income, the wealthy pay more than their share (1% earn 21% but pay 24% of taxes)...unlike the argument that the rich don't pay taxes.

You can debate the exact amount they should pay but it's hard to argue they aren't paying the vast majority of taxes (top 20% of earners pays 66% of taxes vs bottom 60% pay 15% of taxes)...that's pretty heavily stacked in favor of the poor.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You can debate the exact amount they should pay but it's hard to argue they aren't paying the vast majority of taxes (top 20% of earners pays 66% of taxes vs bottom 60% pay 15% of taxes)...that's pretty heavily stacked in favor of the poor.

Yes, this is the real crux. The rich DO pay more, but that's because they have more. How much more should they pay is the grand (and perpetual) social debate. But regardless, I don't think it's the point of this thread.

We are all (even me) in the upper tiers of wealth when looked at from the global scale. My income puts me below poverty levels here in Canada, but I'm still richer than 80+% of the planet.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

This is complete crap and utter nonsense.


Please stop with the wealthy people don't pay their fair share drivel.

Look at IRS data on tax contributions. Start here...https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-t...ts-at-a-glance

Here are a few facts from the Tax Foundation to chew on between your petty whining...

• Since 2001, the share of federal income taxes paid by the top 1 percent increased from 33.2 percent to a new high of 40.1 percent in 2018.

• In 2018, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.1 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.9 percent.

• The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (40.1 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (28.6 percent).

• The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.4 percent average individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.4 percent).

• The share of income taxes paid by the top 1 percent increased from 33.2 percent in 2001 to a high of nearly 40.1 percent in 2018. Over the same period, the share paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers fell from 4.9 percent to just below 3 percent.

Good stats, now do it as a proportion of net worth.

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

http://taxfoundation.org/publication...come-tax-data/
(This a pretty good, unbiased simplification of the above mentioned data provided by the IRS spreadsheets linked above.)

And some basic math applied to the figures cited there:

Top 1% paid an average of $426,000 on an average income of $1,677,000. The bottom 50% paid an average of $626 on an average income of $18,500.

Tell me again why it’s unfair that you only get to take home $1.2 million, and we need to take more from people that earn $18k a year?

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

Oh...and why 2018? Because that's the last year the IRS has published data as seen on the IRS website.

I suspect most people who whine about "fair share"

• Don't have to report and pay estimated taxable income quarterly to the IRS

• Don't have to worry about getting a $5000 fine if quarterly income is under-reported

• Don't get audited regularly

• Don't have to worry about paying the state and federal gov't "death tax"

• Don't have to worry about taking income distributions that will increase your tax burden from 34% to 39% and having to pay a penalty.

• Have never invested more than $250K to start or invest in a business

• Have never ran a business that employed more than 100 people

• Don't have to hire tax attorneys or CPAs to navigate the ridiculous tax code put together by the chowderhead politicians who are mostly millionaires and promise ideologues and naive people to vote for them on promises of "making the rich pay their fair share"

The fact you see these things as burdens is pure comedy. These are problems that the vast majority of people wish they had the good fortune of having.

Also, the idea that it’s the wealthy that suffer from an overly complex tax code is again absurd to the point of comedy. If you need to hire a tax attorney to figure it out, how exactly do you think that people who can’t afford a tax attorney navigate it? The answer is poorly, and many pay more than they legally have to every year as a result.

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

• Mostly have no clue about US tax code

• Are excited to apply for and receive "credits" or "refunds" on their tax forms

Most people fill out a 1040-EZ, and aren’t getting any credits that aren’t automatic. Many people in the bottom 50% that you are so mad at don’t file at all because they don’t make enough money to have taxable income.

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

People in the US are all supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law, and I am all for a personal/individual flat tax, or a VAT (value add tax) in which everyone pays into the system based on the amount they spend on things other than food and shelter.

(IMHO corporations, including C, S, LLC, and non-profit corporations should have different tax codes that apply to them.)

Or maybe the top 10% should start demanding the bottom 50% of all taxpayers pay their fair share, and end all "tax credits." Afterall, the US is a country of "equality"...right?

Agree, we should end all tax credits and stick to a simple progressive marginal rate income tax for individuals and businesses.

Something tells me you would be somewhat pissed when you realize that under that system the bottom 50% pays roughly the same as they do now, and a boatload of credits and strategies that your tax account uses every year suddenly don’t exist and you owe $100k more than you are used to. And that 100+ employee business you run can’t use asset depreciation on things it bought years ago to drive down this years reportable profits.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

. But regardless, I don't think it's the point of this thread.

What is the point of this thread again?

[Joli]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Good stats, now do it as a proportion of net worth.



And some basic math applied to the figures cited there:

Top 1% paid an average of $426,000 on an average income of $1,677,000. The bottom 50% paid an average of $626 on an average income of $18,500.

Tell me again why it’s unfair that you only get to take home $1.2 million, and we need to take more from people that earn $18k a year?



The fact you see these things as burdens is pure comedy. These are problems that the vast majority of people wish they had the good fortune of having.

Also, the idea that it’s the wealthy that suffer from an overly complex tax code is again absurd to the point of comedy. If you need to hire a tax attorney to figure it out, how exactly do you think that people who can’t afford a tax attorney navigate it? The answer is poorly, and many pay more than they legally have to every year as a result.



Most people fill out a 1040-EZ, and aren’t getting any credits that aren’t automatic. Many people in the bottom 50% that you are so mad at don’t file at all because they don’t make enough money to have taxable income.



Agree, we should end all tax credits and stick to a simple progressive marginal rate income tax for individuals and businesses.

Something tells me you would be somewhat pissed when you realize that under that system the bottom 50% pays roughly the same as they do now, and a boatload of credits and strategies that your tax account uses every year suddenly don’t exist and you owe $100k more than you are used to. And that 100+ employee business you run can’t use asset depreciation on things it bought years ago to drive down this years reportable profits.

Have you ever signed the front of a paycheck? Have you ever put your paycheck in a drawer uncashed because after paying employees there was nothing left for you? Have you ever risked your home or savings to start a business?

Just asking.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by GordMay

x
x
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The truth about the American tax system is that it is slightly progressive.

The richest one percent earn about 21 percent of the income, and pay about 24 percent of the taxes.

The ITEP uses a microsimulation tax model that combines all tax filings (individual and corporate) and data sampling.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Really, really, really, really curious who you stole your 'money' from?

I stole money from no person. I worked hard and earned my money using my skills, and making good investments.

Basically Jim, it comes down to making good decisions in life, and accepting the consequences of those decisions and not blaming others for our own inadequacies, poor decisions, and stupid mistakes.

Also curious 'who' clued you into how the 'value' it has was validated?

Sorry, but I have no clue as to what you are asking here. Grammatically, this sentence makes no sense.

Does it have anyhing at all to do with an arbitrary assessment?

I made no arbitrary assessment. I provided facts and data based on real IRS data (not computer models of data samples) of individual tax returns.

How 'bout if 'we' make those that use individuals for their source of income pay those individuals enough to allow them to pay their 'fair share'?

I suspect that by 'individuals' you mean employees of a company. Let me explain something pretty basic to you Jim. Employees of a company are not the "source of income" for that company. Income is generated from customers who purchase a product or service from a company. Income from customers is then redistributed into things like payroll, state and federal taxes, insurance, leases, maintenance, inventory purchases, etc.

Slavery has been illegal in the US for a long time, so nobody is "using" individuals for their source income. No 'individual' is beholden to work for a company if they feel they are not being paid what they think they are worth, or receiving their 'fair share.'

Individuals are also free to start their own business.

Such buffoonery is as ridiculous as believing that 'trickle-down economics' has any basis in reality. No? I suggest, then, you provide a prospectus illustrating your business model catering to non-customers.

Your grammar is a bit confusing and also illogical. First, the entire concept of "trickle down economics" was derived from a satirical article written by humorist Will Rogers in 1932 lampooning a Republican candidate. The very idea that politicians and uninformed individuals continue to use this ridiculous theory as a divisive talking point indicates a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of business and economics. (Which is perhaps why virtually all politicians know nothing about economics and have never ran a business, and why most small businesses started by entrepreneurs fail within 5 years.)

BTW...a prospectus is a document that describes a business model to attract customers, investors, etc. A document that 'caters to non-customers' would not be a prospectus.

Leaving aside the other clues demonstrating who's dictated your opinion to you...

My opinions are my own; however, the facts speak for themselves if the person reading them has the intellectual capacity to interpret them correctly.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Richest People in the World 2021

2,755 billionaires and millionaires make up the Forbes list of the richest people in the world. That’s 660 more than in 2020, even though the pandemic devastated the global economy.
Altogether these billionaires are worth $13.1 trillion, up from $8 trillion in 2020.

The pandemic did not bother them
In fact, the group of billionaires and millionaires in the world managed to accumulate 5 billion dollars more, during the pandemic year, than they had in the year before that.

The 400 wealthiest Americans saw their collective fortune increase 40% over the last year, to $4.5 trillion.

Forbes:
World list ➥ https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/
American list ➥ https://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

Today’s Winners and Losers Reflects changes since 5pm EST of prior trading day
➥ https://www.forbes.com/real-time-bil.../#9c53f2a3d788

Bloomberg Billionaires Index [updated daily]➥ https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/

Oh Yes - and leaders on the list are leftist elites like Jeff Bezos owner of the ultra liberal Washington Post and Zucherberg-owner of Facebook who contributed over $250000000 to Bidens election--and George Soros who gave over two hundred million to leftist Demorats last election.