Joe Was Arrested

[Tori]

Lol about the Rambo comment. That night after I bailed Joe out of jail he said now he knew how Rambo felt

[webejammin]

In Washington state they offer for additional $15.00 an enhansed drivers licence that has our Pass Port info in an embeded chip that any law enforcement can scan in there vehichels and other places. I think the couple of times I've been stopped by enforcement in the last several years ( like for a burned out tail light on a trailor ) that has made the cops feel at ease and never have gotten a ticket so far. I have long hair and get a real dark tan but the Pass Port info on my Drivers licence helps with officials to know I'm not an illegal alian and don't have a criminal record. I think most law enforcement officers are parinoid if all info on a person is not easily avaiable, that makes there day easier.

[Aussiesuede]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I am sitting in the sun on a beautiful spring morning and I could be sailing but instead I am getting another fascinating insight to the minds and hearts of our American friends. Money couldn't buy this type of "education".

Yep, very educational. Shines a very bright light on just how different things are in different states, and even different parts of the same state, in the USA. I evenly split time between Vancouver BC and Seattle WA. Policing in Vancouver AND Seattle are what's termed "Community Policing". Law Enforcement takes a more passive role and looks for Criminal Intent more than they look for technical violations of law. As a result, their relationship with the public they serve is MUCH less adversarial than in jurisdictions where law enforcement is of the proactive "Seek out Violations of Law" variety. I could not imagine an arrest like the one in question happening here in a million years simply because law enforcement isn't "out to figure out a way to get ya" in this jurisdiction. They are more keenly interested in pursuing those who are obviously TRYING to break the law than they are with those who have technically violated the law.

I recently had the commuter vehicle I drive back and forth between Canada and Washington up for sale. It was registered in te state of Washington. The O2 sensors were bad so it would not pass emissions inspection. I knew I was going to sell it so I voluntarily let the tags expire instead of making the repairs necessary to pass inspection. I drove the vehicle for 5 weeks with expired tags before it sold, crossing the international border 3 times. Once in Seattle, an officer pulled up next to me at a traffic light and asked if I knew my tags were expired. He smiled and told me to try to get it taken care of before getting an ticket from someone else. It was a 5 second genial exchange. I was never approached in Vancouver about the expiration, even though I once received a parking citation. The bottom line is I could be comfortable in making the decision I did because the worst case scenario is I might one day receive a ticket for a technical violation. But that would be the worst to come of it because our law enforcement isn't seeking out an adversarial relationship with the public. The "style" of policing is VERY different all over the USA. Two people commiting the SAME acts in different places can have wildly different outcomes.

[Ocean Girl]

Sorry for your troubles Tori and Joe , I hope it works out quickly. The government ( in general) sure seems not to like ' off the grid' folks. I've been pulled over and gotten warnings about not having my physical address on my license. After two years I finally put my marina as my physical address, though it is vague considering there is no place for slip or pier.
Being a yacht in transit, doesn't that give us a tourist standing? People renting a beach house, or keeping their rv in a park, do they have the same problems?

Sorry if this has been covered, I didn't read all 10 pages of this thread. I understand Florida is especially hostile towards boaters, though can't understand why, it is such a big money for the state. I wonder if it will all come to a head and we as a group will have to boycott areas that harass boaters. Boat US seems a good organization to speak with about this issue, they are by far the most powerful voice for us.
Erika

[Adamante]

Originally Posted by Aussiesuede

The "style" of policing is VERY different all over the USA. Two people commiting the SAME acts in different places can have wildly different outcomes.

Yeah, well I guess that's what this thread is all about.

BTW, to the OP - the count is now over 3600 views and 130 responses in less than 48 hours. I'd say you have a bright future in marketing. The thread title alone is compellingly brilliant.

[zeta]

Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams

Can't believe someone complains about getting a ticket for running a red light.. DUH

Tori
Don't know what BS charge they gave Joe that was criminal for a non-moving violation. but when it's over your attorney should get the arrest stricken from the books..

On other matters;
I quit driving after I got injured and my only ID I carry is my passport. Sure screws with a cop's brain when they ask for ID. Not my fault they can't figure it out, not that hard to do. When asked for an address, I gave one my Lat. and Lon. Had to go to court as a witness amd that's all the info I gavethem..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a US citizen not driving a vehicle I am not required to carry an id card for the benefit of the police or anyone else. I am also not required to have a permanent address. Work requirements, voting, driving, buying guns or alcohol, etc. does require id, but a cop asking me for id and my failure to comply is not unlawful. Police are paid to protect not harass....

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by atoll

all the more reason to become an "ocean gypsy"
homeless in paradise.............

I vote for that - Having been "out there" for a decade it was a shock to come back and see the differences here these days.
- - Gotta get back "out there" as soon as possible. . . It is a whole different universe out there and a good boat is your ticket to do it.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by zeta

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a US citizen not driving a vehicle I am not required to carry an id card for the benefit of the police or anyone else. I am also not required to have a permanent address. Work requirements, voting, driving, buying guns or alcohol, etc. does require id, but a cop asking me for id and my failure to comply is not unlawful. Police are paid to protect not harass....

Wrong I think. At least in Florida.

Every person is required to have ID upon request. If you do not have a drivers license the state issues you a Florida ID. Those are obtained at the same places one gets the DLs.

You leave your home without it at your peril.


http://www.dmvflorida.org/drivers-li...fication.shtml


http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/geninfo.html


Then there is this stuff.

http://knowmyrights.org/faq/4th-amen...o-show-id.html

[Aussiesuede]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Wrong I think. At least in Florida.

Every person is required to have ID upon request. If you do not have a drivers license the state issues you a Florida ID. Those are obtained at the same places one gets the DLs.

You leave your home without it at your peril.

Show me your papers.

[Adamante]

Originally Posted by zeta

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a US citizen not driving a vehicle I am not required to carry an id card for the benefit of the police or anyone else.

I think the point is that if you do produce an ID card (i.e., a driver's license) it better have the correct info on it.

I am also not required to have a permanent address.

Apparently, in Florida (and perhaps many other states in the post-9/11 world), you do need to have one to get a driver's license.

[osirissail]

Therapy - "Wrong I think. At least in Florida."
- - Not quite the whole story and it is a big quandry these days. The U.S. Constitution and Constitutional laws are pretty settled that personal ID cannot be required of a U.S. Citizen.
- - But, it is equally settled law that to do anything like driving you need a license to drive; or to bank you need a SS#; to use a credit card you need (although few ask for it) a form of photo ID and the list goes on and on.
- - And there are a hundred and one ways you can be jailed briefly for standing up for your right to not have to produce ID. The court dockets are full of Jane Doe and John Doe names.
- - You can fight for your rights, but in the process you will be cut off from most "normal" activity and end up living under a bridge with a shopping cart full of your possessions. The irony is that the homeless are the last "free" people left in the country. But at least, you are free to make that choice.

[bstreep]

Wow, Tori, sorry to hear about this.

Once quick piece of advice. Call the district attorney in the morning, and ask to meet with him/her. Tell them that you can't afford an attorney, and that before you request a court appointed attorney at the county's expense, you would like to see if you can work this out. I'll bet that the district attorney will be rolling his/her eyes at the whole arrest thing for an expired plate and/or failure to change a license.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Aussiesuede

Show me your papers.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by zeta

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a US citizen not driving a vehicle I am not required to carry an id card for the benefit of the police or anyone else. I am also not required to have a permanent address. Work requirements, voting, driving, buying guns or alcohol, etc. does require id, but a cop asking me for id and my failure to comply is not unlawful. Police are paid to protect not harass....

I think this is true as long as the police don't have a probable cause to ask you for an ID. While you, as a voter and taxpayer, may believe that "police are paid to protect not harass" (a belief that I happen to share), it appears that this belief is not universally shared by all policemen, legislators, or for that matter, other voters.

In any case, the requirement to have a "principal residence address" to obtain a driver's license seems is at least confusing, and may be quite restrictive to U.S. cruisers who wish to have a driver's license but who move from place to place every few days or weeks. It seems that the Department of Homeland Security's position is that even a temporary change to a place of residence needs to be reported to the issuing authorities. The states may have some latitude in defining "principal residence".

The following are excerpts from the DHS responses to public comments on the Real ID Act requirements:

3. Principal Residence Documentation
Comment: Many commenters suggested that the definition of ``principal residence'' be amended. One State recommended that DHS define ``principal residence'' as the jurisdiction in which an individual spends the most time. Another commenter requested ``principal residence'' be defined as the primary or most important place of abode of an individual and at which he or she presently has an intention of living for an indeterminate period. Another State suggested that the definition be changed to require that a person's principal residence be within the jurisdiction issuing the card and to allow the States to issue exemptions. One State suggested that DHS clarify the definition so that students, military, visitors, and others who are temporarily residing in another jurisdiction are not required to change their principal residences.
Response: DHS agrees that the definition of ``principal residence'' needs to be clarified in the rule. The term is defined in the final rule as the location where a person is currently domiciled (i.e., presently resides even if at a temporary address) in conformance with the residency requirements of the State of domicile, if such requirements exist.
Comment: Commenters wrote that requiring two documents proving residence is burdensome on certain individuals (i.e., recent movers, minors, homeless, and those not listed as primary payer on accounts) and suggested use of the United States Postal Service (USPS) National Change of Address system as a verification tool. One State recommended that the rule allow use of an on-line address verification system to replace the two forms of address documents, at least for remote renewals.
Response: DHS does not agree that it is too burdensome to require an individual to produce two documents to establish his or her address of principal residence. Since the State has maximum flexibility in determining what documents are acceptable for this purpose, DHS believes that the States will be able to find a combination of documents for each person eligible to apply for a REAL ID driver's license or identification card. DHS believes States may use the procedures established in their exceptions processes when seeking to document the address of principal residence of the homeless or other individuals who may not have a fixed street address.
Comment: Commenters wrote that there are certain groups of people including students, long-haul truck drivers, the homeless, migrant workers, and others who do not have a single fixed address and who will not be able to meet this requirement. One commenter requested that the rule be strengthened by clarifying in the exceptions process that the requirement of a fixed address will be waived as long as a REAL ID applicant can make a showing that they have none and that they can comply with other documentation requirements.
Response: As noted above, DHS believes that States will be able to resolve these issues through the use of their exceptions process.

[JanetGroene]

Please keep us posted on the outcome. Good luck.