Hiding Guns on Board

[Stumble]

Let's see... Commit a felony in a foreign country, which would then make the owning of a gun in the US an additional felony. Sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Mexico for instance has a mandatory minimum of 5 years for as much as a single round of amunition smuggled into the country.

Once you get out you would also likely be facing American gun smuggling charges, with additional jail time to follow.

[daletournier]

As an Australian I find it almost surreal that someone needs to or wants to own a gun let alone carry one on their yacht. I realize the US and Australian cultures differ in regards to guns so I try not to be judgemental. Other than farmers gun ownership is incredibly low here in Aust, I don't know anyone that owns a gun or anyone that would admit to it. It's just not very socially accepted. I've been sailing in Asia for 2 years now and this includes the length of the Indonesia archipelago and at no time have I ever felt the need for a gun. I certainly would not risk running foul of the law in Asian countries by testing their laws with guns, drugs or anything else. Respect of their laws and systems is both wise and also a courtesy we should show as guests. I wouldnt try hiding a gun.
Cheers Dale.

[landonshaw]

Having an unregistered gun in a foreign country I extremely serious. Having it hidden is worse. We know and accept that unless you are licensed, iris a bd idea to carry a hidden gun onto an airplane, you would get better treatment in the States for that than being caught in another country with a hidden weapon.

[Dulcesuenos]

I am and have always been a huge Gun Nut. I did sell a very extensive assault weapon collection to help fund our boat purchase etc,

I have hunted since I was 5. in the last several years had become obsessed with bow hunting, and enjoy it thouroughly. I do not own nor have I felt the need to have a carry permit. Though I am glad many do and feel it is important to do so as armed citizens have helped thwart many crimes. This was a tough decision for us , as a married couple about to begin serious long term cruiusing in the next few years, and some serious short term cruising until then. How to protect our family and boat. We have numerous hiding spots on our boat that I have no doubt would make it impossible for anyone but me to find, but once I had to use that gun, its much easier to find..
The reality of my choice to go unarmed was a tough one but I made up a list of every possible encounter in which having a firearm nearby might help and then looked at how it could possibly go wrong. Even if you were right in another country and the attacker was a scumbag, having a gun and especialy using it will get you in worse trouble than you would ever want. In the US not such a big deal butin other countries it is. So we have decided to leave our guns at home.
That does not mean we dont have a nice array of Gurkha knifes, pole spears, bear spray, and a few other fun things on board.

[Hud3]

We cleared in dozens of times when cruising the eastern Caribbean, Bermuda and the Bahamas. The boat was searched only once, and not very throughly. It would have been very easy to hide anything at all.

However, each and every time we cleared in we were required to declare any firearms or ammunition. If you say you have none on board, and later end up using the weapon in self-defense, the circumstances of the incident will not save you. If you think that using an un-declared weapon to save your life is justifiable, you're mistaken. You will be arrested and jailed.

When we lived on Nevis, a friend of mine ordered a part for a .22 rifle that had been left in the house he bought by the previous owner. He wanted to use it to deter the monkeys that were raiding his fruit orchard. He thought this was no big deal. He even declared the part and a couple of boxes of .22 ammo when he went to pick them up at the airport. He and his wife were arrested on the spot, and jailed for a week. They were released on bail. He was convicted at trial and sentenced to seven years of hard labor, reduced on appeal to three years. His appeal to a higher court was eventually successful, due mainly to intercession by the US State Department, but it took several years, during which time he was prohibited from leaving the island.

These countries take illegal weapon possession very seriously. Being a visitor will only make it harder on you if you're caught.

[SimonV]

LEO's the world over are up to date with all known hidiholes. If a new one or seemingly ingenious new method is detected this information is passed on to agencies worldwide in a matter of days. You hide it thay find it, , you're f#@!ed.

[Boatguy30]

I'm honestly not super interested in this thread, but another thread had suggested some search dogs are able to detect gunpowder?

Is this true? I have been only been searched by dogs twice, once in Cuba departing the country and once importing the boat to Australia. I did have Solas flares on board which have a small amount I believe. They were just stores in the ditch bag when searched in Cuba and no notice was made of them. I assume they were just looking for Cubans and not weapons leaving the country.

Just curious about this. I constantly find it interesting that those most experienced with weapons seem to be the least likely to take them cruising. Too bad the general population does not have the same attitude so more accidents didn't happen.

[Kenomac]

It would be easier for you to legally purchase a shotgun for "sporting" purposes in the country you seek to visit, than to get yourself out of any mess you find yourself in when an illegal handgun is found by the authorities.

I've read many threads on the subject and even posted my own regarding a foreign gun purchase. Forget about the handgun outside of US waters, not worth the risk.

We also carry several of these K-Bar dual purpose knives scattered around the boat for "fishing" and "rigging."

[lancelot9898]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I'm honestly not super interested in this thread, but another thread had suggested some search dogs are able to detect gunpowder?

.

It's amazing what a well trained dog can detect. I too would be interested in their capabilities.

I also find it ironic that Mexico with all the harsh gun laws is one country where drug cartels are armed better than law enforcement.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by BozSail

A flare gun might be effective (better than nothing in a pinch, eh). And... perfectly legal on the boat - everywhere, isn't it?

In quite a few countries a flare gun requires a permit as well...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

... How to protect our family and boat. ...

Why do you actually want to take your family to a place where you need a gun to protect them? Petter stick to those parts of the world (about 99% I would guess) where you're OK without being armed...

And just ask yourself: Do you own something you are willing to die for? Do you own something you are willing to kill for? For me the answer to both questions is no. So I don't see the point of owning a gun (other then for national defense purposes...)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Hud3

We cleared in dozens of times when cruising the eastern Caribbean, Bermuda and the Bahamas. The boat was searched only once, and not very throughly. It would have been very easy to hide anything at all.

However, each and every time we cleared in we were required to declare any firearms or ammunition. If you say you have none on board, and later end up using the weapon in self-defense, the circumstances of the incident will not save you. If you think that using an un-declared weapon to save your life is justifiable, you're mistaken. You will be arrested and jailed.

When we lived on Nevis, a friend of mine ordered a part for a .22 rifle that had been left in the house he bought by the previous owner. He wanted to use it to deter the monkeys that were raiding his fruit orchard. He thought this was no big deal. He even declared the part and a couple of boxes of .22 ammo when he went to pick them up at the airport. He and his wife were arrested on the spot, and jailed for a week. They were released on bail. He was convicted at trial and sentenced to seven years of hard labor, reduced on appeal to three years. His appeal to a higher court was eventually successful, due mainly to intercession by the US State Department, but it took several years, during which time he was prohibited from leaving the island.

These countries take illegal weapon possession very seriously. Being a visitor will only make it harder on you if you're caught.

An important legal note for any Americans thinking about dealing with attacks in foreign countries:


American law gives us a lot of leeway to act in self-defense, including even killing an attacker in many situations. Self-help is part of our culture, I guess, and it's reflected in our laws. Do not expect the same leeway in other countries. Your right to use deadly force in self-defense in other countries ranges from very restricted to none at all. Which means that if you injure or, God forbid, kill someone with a machete or knife, not to even speak of a smuggled illegal firearm, even if that person is about to kill or injure you in the course of committing a crime against you, you might end up in jail for up to the rest of your life. This will seem outrageous to Americans, but this is the reality in many places. Is it better to spend your life in a third-world prison, or be maimed, or perhaps even killed, by an attacker? I dunno, frankly.


What I personally take from this is that there is simply no way to win in areas with big security problems. In many places there is simply no feasible means of self-defense, which means that there is simply no real security to be had by any means. For me this means that I will simply not cruise in Venezuela and other rough neighborhoods.


And I am only talking about the legal situation here -- I didn't even get to the practical question of whether you will be realistically able to fend off an attack by yourself, whatever weapon you may have to do it with. For me it's a total no-win situation. You will all make your own judgements, of course, but that's mine.

[El Rubio]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Why do you actually want to take your family to a place where you need a gun to protect them? Petter stick to those parts of the world (about 99% I would guess) where you're OK without being armed...

And just ask yourself: Do you own something you are willing to die for? Do you own something you are willing to kill for? For me the answer to both questions is no. So I don't see the point of owning a gun (other then for national defense purposes...)

Unfortunately, trouble isn't always in specific locations. I don't own and carry firearms so that I can visit the seedy part of town, I avoid that area anyway. I was trained, and most other concealed carry permit owners were probably advised, to give a robber what he wants. His life isn't worth taking for your wallet, but it isn't always about that. Sometimes, they have other intentions. I don't own my children, but I have two daughters <20, and I am willing to kill for their safety. I bet every father on here is too. I own guns to protect my family, but it's also a hobby. I love target shooting and it's a part of the culture here in the USA.

I'm with the majority of others here and suggest the OP obey the local laws.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by erobert

... The goal for me would be to make it obvious to them before they're within range of even a rifle that I will be putting up a fight to persuade against belligerence...

I wonder how you would determine that anyone is actually a deadly threat, at that distance.
I also wonder how, having determined that a deadly threat exists, you would retrieve (from hiding) and deploy your weapon early enough to dissuade or preempt an attack.

[goboatingnow]

Despite what Seaworthy says , most countries do allow you to defend yourself and to use lethal force , however there are some very important differences to the US. Firstly few of these rights extend to public places and are confined to your home. In most countries a boat is not a home.

Secondly few countries have any sort of " stand your ground " protection ( some European countries do ) hence you have to act in a reasonable manner and allow a potential attacker to retreat or you must equally retreat.

The main issue is that outside of the US , the premeditated ability to use a gun in self defence is entirely restricted. The use is many countries for firearms is sport such as hunting or target shooting and many countries allow quite a generous array of firearms to be used for that manner , upto and including large calibre handguns.

Hence the primarily difference is why you have a firearm on a boat , the only reason is in defence against wild animals and not people. Hence actions involving the premeditated use of a firearm show disregard for that concept and tend to be treated harshly by the courts.

That's the key difference to the US. abroad the premeditated use of firearms gets you a would of trouble


Dave